Zionist Is To Jew, What Neoconservative Is To Christian

[Gold9472]

I see the term "Zionist" thrown around a lot in our "9/11 Discussions", and in other aspects of things going on in the world... I want to make sure that people understand that a "Zionist" does not incorporate all jews, just as "Neoconservatives" doesn't incorporate all Christians... Also, as it turns out, some "Neoconservatives" are "Zionists", and vice versa...

So there's no confusion as to what either term is... here are their respective definitions:

Zi·on·ism
P Pronunciation Key (z-nzm) n.
A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.

ne·o·con·ser·va·tism
P Pronunciation Key (n-kn-s»rv-tzm) n.
An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s: "The neo-conservatism of the 1980s is a replay of the New Conservatism of the 1950s, which was itself a replay of the New Era philosophy of the 1920's" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.).

Just wanted to help to make sure anti-semitism doesn't start to rise...

[danceyogamom]

very clear -

Before, it never would have occurred to me to define those things for people ...

however, recently I've been spending time with someone from Turkey, who is Muslim. It absolutely blew my mind that he lumped all Christians into one group. Makes sense - I know about as much on the Muslim faith. But still, it was a good eye-opener for me.

[Gold9472]

very clear -

Before, it never would have occurred to me to define those things for people ...

however, recently I've been spending time with someone from Turkey, who is Muslim. It absolutely blew my mind that he lumped all Christians into one group. Makes sense - I know about as much on the Muslim faith. But still, it was a good eye-opener for me.

It's a shame there are labels in the world, but unfortunately, it's the only way to differentiate the good guy, from the bad guy.

[danceyogamom]

It's a shame there are labels in the world, but unfortunately, it's the only way to differentiate the good guy, from the bad guy.

labels can be good.

they can offer identity, cohesion, a sense of safety and belonging.

its when the labels become narrow minded, hateful or exclusive that they stop being good.

[PhilosophyGenius]

"Just wanted to help to make sure anti-semitism doesn't start to rise..." -JG

Don't worry it's not, at least not in America. If your refering to Israel they are being portraied as the good guys.

[jetsetlemming]

I'm not clear on the definitiion of neocon. What earns it the "neo" prefix? I can't figure that out. Waht the difference between conservatives and neo-conservatives? Are all conservatives today called neocons?

[Gold9472]

I'm not clear on the definitiion of neocon. What earns it the "neo" prefix? I can't figure that out. Waht the difference between conservatives and neo-conservatives? Are all conservatives today called neocons?

A true conservative believes in less Government, etc... a Libertarian for example, is a true conservative. A "Neoconservative" is a group calling themselves "conservative" even though they are fascists.

[Partridge]

A true conservative believes in less Government, etc... a Libertarian for example, is a true conservative. A "Neoconservative" is a group calling themselves "conservative" even though they are fascists.

Well, I don't think its a prerequisite of conservatism to be against Government (with a capital G) - its that conservatives tend to want lower taxes (for the rich anyway), and less social spending - spending that makes them or their friends richer (such as defence contracting, government subsidies for business etc) is fine.

Another thing about conservatives is their value system - which is where what we would call cons in the US (ie republicans, ultra-right dems etc) differ from libertarians. They conservative 'moral' (i HATE that word) values, wheereas libertarians are generally progressive on 'moral issues' (pro-choice, pro-drug legalisation, pro-contraception, seperation of church and state, a minimum of laws dictating the actions of an individual, basically)

However, I don't think the terms conservative and liberal are particularly helpful. Because today's conservatives (and I don't mean neo-cons - I mean the ones that always go on about the Constitution and the Founding Fathers and their value system etc) were yesterday's liberals. Washington, Paine, Jefferson, Madison et al were liberals in their day - the conservatives were the monarchists - there was even a conservative wing of the revolutionary movement who argued that the US should be governed by an 'American King'.

But then, if memory serves, wasn't the Republican Party founded as a liberal (for its time) party, whose main platform was abolitionism?

Being conservative really I guess means 'not wanting a change in the status quo' - and well, to me anyway, that seems to incorporate a whole section of the Democratic Party as well.

But the neo-cons, I would classify them as not just conservative, but radically reactionary. It seems they would shred the constitution if they could get away with it (and they are trying).

[jetsetlemming]

I've never payed as much attention to politics and political labels as I have recently, since finding ybbs. I've always been a libertarian as far as I'm concerned.

[jetsetlemming]

I'm a conservative that is for tax cuts to everybody, with just about all of the alphabet soup government organizations disbanded, and I'm against drug legalization. Also, I;m a libertarian that's pro life, and am disgusted by the use of the seperatoin of church and state by some to restrict the freedom of expression and religon on some by assuming that the state counts as all public places. I stick to a general belief that the government has a deap seated lacking in the ability to do anything at all right, and they should be kept away from as many things involving day-to-day life of Americans as possible, while still serving it's original purpose, to pretect and serve the citizens.