Why are you linking to this crap? This is Settler Radio - the radio/tv/website of Arutz Sheva (Channel 7)/Israel National News - the mouthpiece of the Ideological Settler Movement (the same fuckers who glassed a human rights worker the other day). The offices for this propaganda group is located in an illegal settlement outside Ramallah - Ramallah is in P.A.L.E.S.T.I.N.E., not Israel. Maybe you don't think that's relevant? Maybe it's not in the particular context of this discussion, but it's worth pointing out for others who may not know much about Arutz Sheva and their neo-frontiersmen ideology. This station is to the Settler Movement what FOX News is to the Neo-cons.Originally Posted by thumper
Now, I only listned to the first five minutes or so of it. It seemed to be concered with an anti-Gaza 'disengagement' protest from last year. What exactly is your point in posting this? Under international law (and indeed, basic fucking decency) these settlements of 8,000 Israelis within the Occupied Territory of Gaza were illegal. These people had no right to be there, and were finally removed after something like 30 years of illegal occupation. A small victory for the Palestinians. However, there are still 400,000 illegal settlers occupying the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
Let's be clear, instead of linking me to INN (as you've done several times in the past), please clarify YOUR position on this. Do you support the Settler Movement and their attempts to colonise [what's left of] Palestine? No evasion as to what is or isn't Palestine - Palestine, as defined by international law, is the territories occupied by Israel after the 1967 war (West Bank - including Jordan Valley and East Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip).
Actually, its far more complicated than that. Many Rabbis say that Jews are not allowed on the Temple Mount, for religious reasons to do with the Holy of Holies. Others (mainly from the rightwing of Judaism) argue otherwise. I'm not a Jew, nor do I have much interest in the Jewish religion, so I don't know the ins and outs of it. Personally, I think Jews should have the right to pray on Temple Mount if they wish. However, lets be clear about this, Temple Mount (once again), is in OCCUPIED East Jerusalem - and I find it hard to believe that any resolution to this issue of religious freedom can come about while the occupation remains in place.Jews aren't allowed to pray on the temple mount because it offends muslims, and yet when the overwhelming majority is against a gay pride parade, it still goes ahead.
The second part of your argument is a non-sequitur. What has a gay pride march got to do with Temple Mount? Homosexuality is legal in Israel, and homosexuals are allowed to hold demostrations under Israeli law. The wishes of a bunch of crazed Jewish and Muslim clerics don't nullify this fact (interestingly, gay-hate seemed to have briefly united rightwing Islam and rightwing Judaism for this demonstration). As it was, the march was re-routed, but there was still violence by anti-gay Jews in the week leading up to it and a small confrontation at the demo - thankfully, unlike last year's World Pride event, no-one was killed this year. If I remember correctly, there was even a 'holy war' declared on the police by an ultra-Orthodox Rabbical court. However, I really doubt that the "overwhelming majority" of Israelis were opposed to the march, though I may be wrong on that point - not that it matters because even if they were, homosexuals still have the right to march.
Israel is Jewish and Zionist state. In fact that's what Zionism means, creating a Jewish State, ethically, culturally and religiously. The thing is, Judaism is split into three main camps, Orthodox, Conservative and Reform. In 1948 700,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from what became the State of Israel in order to preserve the 'Jewish nature' of the State. And now Israel's new Deputy-PM is calling for the ethnic cleansing of the rest of the Arabs from Israel (that is, pre-1967 Israel as demarcated by the 1967 Green Line), and the annexation of the illegal settlements in Palestine, (ahem) 'in return'.perhaps this all validates the idea that Israel is a secular state, rather than a religious one.
a) I don't think those who founded Israel were particularly 'evil' (I don't think Hitler or Stalin, or Mao, or George Bush are evil either, because evil is a concept I don't believe in). As I said above, and said many times elsewhere on this site, Israel was founded by Zionists (largely secular, and quasi-socialist), based upon the explusion of Palestinains from their homeland. In my opinion, this was wrong both from a moral standpoint, and from the standpoint of fighting anti-semitism.it would seem that Israel was formed with evil intentions by evil people. perhaps it's for the sole reason of tricking the christian community when the end times come, and the anti-christ reveals himself from Jerusalem?
b) If you're using the Bible as a source on modern history and current politcial events, then what can I say? I'm dumbfounded that in 2006 that kind of thing still exists.
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