ONLY WHEN JACK BAUER DOES IT
Yes
No
ONLY WHEN JACK BAUER DOES IT
Torture is brutal and immoral, and there is no indication that it actually is effective. So yes, I'd say it ought to be banned altogether.
Psychological pressure is OK, so now the question is what does and what does not constitute torture.
We're talking about WAR here, people? How do you define parameters for what is acceptable vs. not in a situation that makes it so you can barely think from day to day? Picture this: You are part of an armored convoy that has temp based for the night in the middle of nowhere. (well, somehere like 75 mi. south of Fallujah) It's alot safer to stop for the night than it is to just truck on. You have finished a twenty hour day that was relatively uneventful, but exhausting nonetheless. Truth is it's ALWAYS exhausting just having to maintain that level of alertness for anything more than a day or two, meanwhile you've been doing it for over a year. You've been sleeping for roughly two hours when you awake to a loud explosion and small arms fire. Very disorienting. Most times you sleep in your vehicle at night as it's just easier to wake up and roll if you have to. You get out to see what the hell happened, still not even awake. This does not seem real. A guy you ate dinner with three hours ago is mostly in the street (or the double set of ruts they CALL streets) the rest of him is smeared on the side of your five ton tractor. You knew this guy. Ate with him, played cards with him, took gaurd duty with him, saw pics of his kids... Hell, maybe right before you went to sleep you argued with him about who had the first shift this very day. (Guard duty shift when you stop for the night) Two more bodies are very close to his, but you really can't tell who they are.
Now jump in the Humvee and blast straight across the desert with two other guys, trying to flank these guys in their retreat. Like hitting the lottery, you find them (not many places to hide out here, they rely on confusion and raw distance after an attack) and there are two, which sounds odd cause they normally travel in groups of at least five. So you bring them back to see how many of them died in the attack.
Things are a bit more orderly now back at camp, and it has been determined that there are no enemy casualties. Meaning that based on experience, there are at least three more on the loose.
It kinda hits you now that 5 squad members are dead. Not all friends by any means, but at least 2 of them are.
You think of the pictures in a zip lock bag in your own pocket, of your own kids, and a descision has to be made. Now the question: Do you go get the bolt cutters and start taking off toes/fingers until you find out where the other three guys are? (you suspect three, could be as many as twenty, and you NEED to know that too) Or do you just post double guards and HOPE that was the end of the evenings festivities? Someday I'll post the answer. But for now know that in a WAR the soldier did not ask to be there. He is a human being with a life no less important than anyone reading this is. In something as banal and as uncivilised, there is no "right" or "wrong" only survival. That is not to say it is ok to rape people, or to wontonly kill them without reason, that is just evil, and there is a difference. A man will do whatever neccassary to get home. In that I believe it is OK. It is NOT ok for your government to lock people up indefinitely with no charge filed, and torture them for NO reason. For as we all know, the only Americans being killed on American soil are being killed by the United States Government. They make drugs to obtain information in a controlled situation where you have that kind of time. There is prolly even computer technology that exists now to suit that end. The bottom line is that evil is here among us. And it's hold is getting stronger by the day. From the horrid rape/killing(s) in iraq, to the amenities at club gitmo. Don't lump it all under one categorey of "torture"
I just re-read this and, UCKKK! I am one hideous writer. But I was trying to illustrate a point. Something along the " Judge not, lest YE be judged." In a war, you do what you have to. The not-so-happy ending to tha story is, we took three toes off of that mans left foot. But we got what we needed, and when we found the rest of the raiding party, we found 2 dozen RPG's, and seven partially completed improvised explosive devices. These materials were not so they could win their sweeties a kewpie doll at the county fair, they were used to kill American soldiers. If we had acted under the Geneva conventions, that man would have told us nothing. I don't think it would have been our convoy that got hit, but someone would have lost their lives. I happened to be the ranking official in this instance (nothing but a little ole E-4, but ranking none the less) and after a vote. We wrapped this guys foot up, gave him some food/water, and turned him loose. The vote was won by a narrow margine, as most of the guys just wanted to waste him. Maybe he had kids, or learned something and went on to lead a good life. For all I know he sprouted wings out of his asshole and flew to the moon. The point is this: He left there alive, and American lives were saved. These actions were completely illegal by any standards, but in a situation where survival is the law, sometimes you do what seems the best to you, and you move on. The sound of the cutters snapping his bones does not haunt me. If we hadn't done what needed to be done based on our assessment, I may not be sitting here butchering this post.
This poll is pretty evenly split... Upon my re-read (I like to see how much of a mess I've made) You can't really consider that an example of torture. Lets be politically correct and call it "Information Extraction" or "Colateral Data Mining"
Bump, dammit yell at me. This is terrible! An OUTRAGE! I expected to hear the indignant screams all the way in NY. I've seen how people react to things on these boards. I've been watchin the views, so I know people have read it... And nothing? I don't really want people to yell at me, that was a joke. But SOME kind of emotion. Is that what this country is now, a bunch of emotionless automatons?
That's the spirit.... Liken it to TV, the ONE defining standard we all have in our lives. Here's a thought, take inventory of just how much TV you watch in any given week. Take just 10% of the average, and spend that time DOING something to help this movement. That does not include posting on the net. It means going out and handing out flyers, talking to people about 911 and what you know... (stick to what you know, not what you guess) Keep it simple. If you just keep on watching TV, they fuckin win. Do you get that yet? Has the reality that this is a real situation that exists in the REAL WORLD (not on FOX) sunk in yet? Don't worry, it will. You just watch the fuckin idiot box, cause that's exactly what they WANT you to do.Originally Posted by Chana3812
ONLY WHEN JACK BAUER DOES IT
I agree. And yes, "torture" needs to be better defined.
With regard to the shit that is being done today in prisons all over the world, I'd say it is never justified.
I look at it like this.
Would you ever want to be tortured? By anyone for whatever, reason, and to whatever degree?
Obviously the answer is no.
So why would you wish it on anyone else under any circumstance?
If someone deserves to be tortured, they deserve to just be shot in the head.
puppy torture is wrong
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