Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Bigotry In The 9/11 Truth Movement

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    30,743

    Bigotry In The 9/11 Truth Movement

    Bigotry In The 9/11 Truth Movement

    For years, I have had to deal with individuals making up narratives about me using my religion of birth which is Judaism.

    Eric Hufschmid made a movie entitled "The French Connection" which had this picture in it.


    These idiots have depicted me as a Zionist, among many other things, more times than I can count. This poll was taken from their site.


    Because of them, I addressed their "concerns" in this updated article about Ray McGovern.

    Recently, I found out that there is a nasty rumor going around that I was "going around to 9/11 truth sub-groups offering financial support under the condition that they did not talk about Israeli involvement in the attacks."

    In July of this year, Kevin Barrett appeared on mainstream AM radio. During that interview he said, "starting a war by invading someone else's country, somebody who didn't strike you first, is the supreme crime--worse than genocide, worse than toasting six million Jews."

    I took offense to Kevin's callousness, and posted about it here on 8/31/2009. The next day, Kevin wrote about how I am a "pugnacious Zionist LIHOPper," and that I was part of "the same clique Webster Tarpley had outed as cointelpro operatives or dupes back in mid-2007."

    I tried to ignore what Kevin said, but as I told Kevin in the correspondence you are about to read, people pick up on the lies like Kevin has told, and actually think it is the truth. This is my last attempt at trying to dissuade people of this lie.

    Given that Kevin still equates me as being a Zionist even after I showed him all of the evidence to the contrary, it is my opinion that Kevin Barrett is nothing more than a bigot with a bigoted agenda. It is also my opinion that people like Kevin should not be tolerated or promoted within the 9/11 Truth Movement.

    Here is our correspondence:

    Kevin,

    You have referred to me as a "pugnacious Zionist LIHOPper," and even referenced Webster Tarpley's "outing" of me as COINTELPRO in your article.

    http://truthjihad.blogspot.com/2009/...s-running.html

    1) What proof do you have that I am a Zionist?
    2) What proof do you have that I am a "cointelpro operative?"

    I have every intention of posting this correspondence for everyone to see.

    Jon Gold


    His response...

    Jon,

    Everybody knows you're pugnacious. Look in a mirror. (Nothing wrong with pugnacity when it's appropriate.)

    Since you turned against me (and later started sending busy people spam emails attacking me) shortly after an email exchange in which I explained why I was anti-Zionist, and you reacted angrily, I assume that was the real reason for your sudden enmity. If you are in fact not pro-Zionist, just post something somewhere saying either "I, Jon Gold, oppose a Jewish state in Palestine," or "I, Jon Gold, am neutral on the question of a Jewish state in Palestine." I will then issue a retraction. If you don't want to do that, fine. Nothing wrong with being pro-Zionist. It just means we disagree on one issue.

    As for LIHOP, you emailed me a question for David Griffin last January that seemed to be pleading for a place for LIHOPPERS in the 9/11 truth movement. David shot that down, saying that now that controlled demolition has been proven, LIHOP is irrelevant and extinct. (My summary, not the exact words, which can be heard at the archive at http://noliesradio.org/archives/cate.../fair-balanced .) If you agree with David, just post a statement saying so, and I'll retract that as well.

    I would be happy to re-establish cordial relations with you. I get along fine with lots of people with whom I have bigger political disagreements than I have with you. Let me know if you want to have a private phone conversation, or would like to schedule a slot on the radio.

    Kevin

    PS If you're going to publish this exchange, please publish it complete and unabridged. I'll do the same.


    My response...

    To which exchange are you referring to? John Bursill started an exchange because he was concerned about the state of the movement, and I responded to him. Then that exchange suddenly included people like Barrie Zwicker, David Ray Griffin, etc...

    Which email exchange did I react angrily to? Was it when your campaign manager Rolf Lindgren was attacking people left and right on your behalf including me? Mocking my efforts during an "Eleventh Of Every Month Action?"

    I'm just curious as to why you would refer to me as a Zionist. That's the real question I want you to answer. What possible reason in the world would you have to believe that I am a Zionist?

    Would a Zionist introduce the topic of Israel's possible involvement in the 9/11 attacks to the most popular 9/11 Truth site in the world?

    Would a Zionist post more about Israel than most people in this movement, including those who consider themselves to be "Anti-Zionist" such as yourself?

    Would a Zionist post about people like Jack Abramoff, Elliott Abrams, Michael Chertoff, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Larry Silverstein, Paul Wolfowitz, and Dov Zakheim in my "Who Is? Archives?"

    Would a Zionist promote more than anyone on the planet (that is VERY outdated) 9/11 Whistleblower Sibel Edmonds who calls out the country of Israel?

    Would a Zionist post about the Larry Franklin scandal over, and over, and over, and over, and over again?

    Would a Zionist adamantly oppose the recent Lebanon War, and Gaza Wars?

    Would a Zionist include Israel in Facts #1, #21, and #50 (the who benefitted fact) in an article entitled, "The Facts Speak For Themselves?"

    Would a Zionist make a bunch of movies that asks the question of Israeli involvement in the 9/11 attacks?

    Would a Zionist get REALLY pissed off after reading this article?

    Would a Zionist write an article denouncing attacks against Ray McGovern because he is critical of the U.S.'s favoritism (to put it nicely) towards Israel, and try to save the image of the 9/11 Truth Movement at the same time?

    Would a Zionist contact the only person who could have been the "Fire Department Commander" Larry Silverstein was referring to?

    Again, what possible reason in the world would you have to believe that I am a Zionist?

    As for LIHOP... Dr. Griffin and I recently had an exchange about this very matter. Here is exactly what I told him...

    "As for "letting it happen..." That is an impossibility. Protocols that were in place should have prevented the majority of the attacks. They had to take an active role, whatever that role may have been. I am not ashamed to say that I don't know what happened on 9/11. I don't know. I've been doing this just as long, if not longer than you, and I don't know. I have read everything there is to read on 9/11. In some cases 10x over. I don't know.

    9/11 was a crime. What I DO KNOW is that elements within our Government and others have EARNED the title of suspect for the crime of 9/11."

    I also said...

    "It's no different than the false "left/right paradigm." It is a division among the people in the 9/11 Truth Movement. Or... that is how it is used, and has been for years. Most people who use the terms seem to FORGET that the United States Government uses people from the Middle East through proxies between the ISI, Saudi Arabia, MI5, Mossad, etc... for terrorist purposes. People who may very well be Muslim. People who may very well be Arab. That doesn't mean you blame the entire religion or race. You blame the individuals. People like Kevin Barrett think LIHOP means you are trying to "keep the focus on the evil Muslims..." or commit a "blood-libel" against an entire race of people. Nothing can be further from the truth. As Donna Marsh O'Connor said at the United Nations on 9/11/2005, "is one Arab the same as all Arabs? How DARE that work in this country." I don't know what happened on 9/11, or who was involved. You blame the individuals responsible, not entire religions, races or ideologies. And in my opinion, part of the blame falls on us for allowing the system that brought us the 9/11 in the first place. Through our complacency."

    So Kevin, the terms LIHOP and MIHOP are "irrelevant and extinct" yes, but not because of Controlled Demolition, but because they have outlived their usefulness (if they ever had any), and are divisive.

    Again, what possible reason in the world would you have to believe that I am a Zionist?

    Jon Gold


    His response...

    On Nov 1, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Jonathan Gold wrote:

    I'm just curious as to why you would refer to me as a Zionist. That's the real question I want you to answer. What possible reason in the world would you have to believe that I am a Zionist?

    I already answered that. One more time: I noticed you started attacking me immediately after an email exchange in which I expressed anti-Zionist sentiments and you responded angrily, then went on the warpath against me.

    Zionism means the establishment and maintenance of a Jewish state in Palestine. I assume that you, like most US Americans, probably support that. When you seemingly reacted angrily to my anti-Zionist opinions, that suggested to me that you are in fact not only pro-Zionist, but have strong feelings in that direction. Your opinions on Israeli links to 9/11 and the other issues you list do matter, and I agree with most of them, but they have no direct bearing on whether or not you are a (pro-)Zionist.

    If you oppose a Jewish state in Palestine, just tell me, and I'll issue a retraction. Alternatively, I will be happy to re-state my opinion that (pro-)Zionists are not necessarily bad nor are they necessarily wrong on other issues.

    And if you want to talk it out, let me know.

    Kevin

    PS You might want to listen to my interview with Steve Alten, archived at the same NoLiesRadio.org link I sent you, in which Steve and I went over some of the same ground. He's a strong supporter of the Jewish state, yet doesn't want to be called a Zionist. That's like being a strong supporter of the ideas of Marx and not wanting to be called a Marxist. Since he couldn't offer his own definition of Zionism, I'm afraid he lost that particular debate.

    If you listen to my recent and upcoming shows, you'll see how this works. Last night's guest Richard Falk is skeptical of Zionism (the Jewish state project) but not a declared anti-Zionist. He's professedly neutral on Zionism, thus neither a pro- nor an anti-Zionist. Philip Weiss, this coming Tuesday's guest, is a declared anti-Zionist (he opposes having a Jewish state in Palestine). Likewise with Gilad Atzmon, the following Tuesday's guest. All of these people would basically agree with the definition listed above in boldface. For what it's worth, virtually all Muslims are anti-Zionist, but might be willing to compromise on the issue in certain circumstances...like right of return and return to '67 borders.

    By the way, for the past several years, Iran has been targeted by vicious attacks and even more vicious threats purely due to its VERBAL support of anti-Zionism. Same with Hamas and Hezbullah.


    My response...

    Which email exchange did I react angrily to? Do you have it? I do not believe I reacted angrily because of "anti-Zionist" sentiments, nor do I believe I went on a "warpath" because of it.

    I remember I was angry with you because you had these individuals on your show.

    http://www.911blogger.com/node/16943

    Even AFTER I told you about the hell they have put me through. You had them on so you could talk about "the ridiculous LIHOP "blame Pakistan" and "blame the Saudis" Islamophobic hang-outs" and "evidence implicating Israel and Zionists is off-limits" on 911blogger.com.

    http://web.archive.org/web/200808020...s/lamadrid.htm

    As I have shown you, 911blogger.com has heavily promoted information pertaining to Israel's possible role in the 9/11 attacks. I have shown you that I have also HEAVILY promoted information pertaining to Israel's possible role in the 9/11 attacks, as well as a plethora of other information regarding Israel. And yet, even back then you lied, and said that "evidence implicating Israel and Zionists is off-limits." You were promoting disinformation.

    Just like you are promoting disinformation suggesting that I am a Zionist. Did you know people pick up on that Kevin? Did you know there are actually people who think I am a Zionist because of people like you, and because of people like the idiots I mentioned above? Do you know that there are now people suggesting that I pay groups not to discuss Israel?

    I'm not a Zionist Kevin. As I have said countless times... I do not support America's policies regarding Israel. I do not support AIPAC's influence over American politicians. I do not support Israel's connection to the wiretapping of this country. I do not support using the Holocaust as a "get out of jail free card." I do not support Israel being allowed to have nuclear weapons, and being able to dictate who does, and doesn't have them in the Middle East. I do not support Israel's settlements. I do not support how Israel's soldiers treat Palestinians. I DO NOT support the recent U.S. supported wars against Lebanon, and the Gaza Strip. I DO NOT support the "anti-semitic" label as it is used by those who wish to support Israel's criminality. I DO NOT support how the American media is geared towards making Israel look like the forever good guy.

    However, I do not blame the entire ideology of Zionism for 9/11. I blame the individuals responsible.

    The way my Aunt explained Zionism to me, someone who has taught hebrew school for 30 years, Zionism is essentially a belief that Israel must be protected no matter the cost or the detriment to those around it. Christian Zionists believe that Israel needs to be "fruitful and multiply" in order for Jesus to return. Kevin, did you know that Christian Zionists outnumber Jewish Zionists?

    Speaking of Dr. Griffin, he doesn't promote Israel's possible involvement in the 9/11 attacks, and never has. And yet, I have for as long as I can remember, or at least information suggesting they may have been involved, and I get labeled a Zionist by people like you. Why doesn't Dr. Griffin face your wrath? Why is there this obvious "double standard?"

    Personally Kevin, I think the real reason you referred to me as a Zionist is because I am Jewish. I don't expect you to admit that, but it sure seems that way. Given that there's no reason in the world for you to think of me as a Zionist for the reasons I have already pointed out.

    I listened to your talk with Steve Kevin, and he was right about A LOT. For instance, you seem to think that the Zionists are responsible for all the world's problems. At least, you come across that way.

    The Defense Industry Lobbies, the Pharmaceutical Lobbies, the Alcohol Lobbies, the Gun Rights Lobbies, the Tobacco Lobbies, the Insurance Lobbies, etc... etc... etc... all may have something to say about that.

    Jon


    His response...

    Jon,

    Had you not attacked me, I would not have attacked you.

    Is that simple enough?

    Your transparently bogus excuse for attacking me is that I invite people with widely varying views on my show. Some of them, you and I will vehemently disagree with. (Get ready for next Saturday's show!) But don't attack me personally because you don't like a modest percentage of my over 500 (so far) guests. Attack the guests! Phone in! Post anything anywhere! If on the other hand you have a problem with MOST or ALL of my guests, then maybe you should just turn the dial.

    I have never initiated any attacks on you. But I do support DWI (Defending While Islamic). Google those words for more information on that.

    I'm sure that you realize that when you attack someone personally, that person is likely to construe your motivation in a negative light...especially when the stated motivation is so completely and obviously bogus.

    By the way, I also respond well to peace overtures, which is more than I can say for some people ; )

    Kevin


    My response...

    When did I attack you Kevin? Was it that time I criticized you for not calling out Webster Tarpley for referring to me, Michael Wolsey, Cosmos, Arabesque and Jenny Sparks as COINTELPRO on a stage in New York City during an anniversary? You claim to have spoken to him after the fact, but what you SHOULD have done was called him out then and there as I understand Steve Alten called you out recently in NY. Was it that time I criticized you for supporting Webster Tarpley's actions concerning Cindy Sheehan?

    There was a time Kevin when I was your biggest supporter. I have probably 100 Kevin Barrett posts on my site. Now, I think you are a detriment to everything I stand for. There is a reason for that. You say that you "invite people with widely varying views" on your show, but don't realize, or maybe you do, that a lot of the people you do have on completely and totally destroy the credibility of the cause of 9/11 Truth. You have no regard for our credibility. That is why you were banned from 911blogger.com. It had nothing to do with the fact that you are a Muslim like you claim. Another lie.

    Why do you lie Kevin? Why do you lie about hard working people like Cosmos who is responsible for the "Eleventh Of Every Month Action." The ONLY sustained action within this movement. Why did you feel it necessary to write the people organizing the Australia event to complain about Cosmos participation? Because he has a thread on his site with a collection of deplorable things you and people associated with you have done over the years? Hello? Does it register? I doubt it.

    People like you have tacked on years to this cause. YEARS. That is unforgivable.

    Jon

    P.S. This is the 9/11 Truth Movement. Not the anti-Zionist Movement. Even though people like you, and others try to make it that way.


    His response...

    Jon,

    The problem isn't that you're pugnacious. Nor is that intellectually, you're utterly mediocre, and that's being charitable. Nor is it that you're pro-Zionist. Lots of my friends and colleagues support a Jewish state in Palestine, and that's their business.

    The problem is that the combination of your stupidity, Zionism, and pugnaciousness makes you a huge waste of time, and a drain on the resources of the 9/11 truth movement.

    I have never once in my life attacked anyone in the 9/11 truth movement if they didn't attack me first. Why not? Because it just leads to a time-wasting flame war.

    But you...all you DO, besides posting moronic home movies that even your dog wouldn't want to watch, and idiotically predictable commentary that even your mom wouldn't want to read, is attack people (mostly people who are at least 50 IQ points and oodles of education ahead of you) and start flame wars. The internet, which puts everyone--morons like you and erudite geniuses like Tarpley--on the same level, has contributed to your developing a wildly inflated opinion of yourself. Like the F student who protests the hardest against not getting an A, you're too dumb to realize how dumb you are.

    If you aren't an op, you might as well be. My best guess is that you're just an intellectually-mediocre pugnacious Zionist lihopper who has somehow come into enough money to spend your whole life wasting the 9/11 truth movement's time. You and Brian Good are each other's evil twins. Maybe you two should get together and wank each other while you fantasize about the 9/11 truth leaders you love to hate.

    Over and out.

    Kevin


    My response...

    Thanks Kevin. This is pretty much all I needed.

    Jon
    No One Knows Everything. Only Together May We Find The Truth JG


  2. #2
    simuvac Guest
    Wait. Tarpley is a genius?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    30,743
    Quote Originally Posted by simuvac
    Wait. Tarpley is a genius?
    An "erudite genius."
    No One Knows Everything. Only Together May We Find The Truth JG


  4. #4
    Kevin Fenton Guest
    Jon, so sorry to learn you are a medicore Zionist who complains about getting an F ;-).

    Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    30,743
    Thanks Kevin. The point is... it shouldn't be tolerated, and anyone that participates in it, shouldn't be promoted.
    No One Knows Everything. Only Together May We Find The Truth JG


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    30,743
    Jon Gold: Nafeez... I have a question for you... what are your feelings about individuals who try to say there is no evidence of "hijackers" or "Muslim involvement" with regards to the 9/11 attacks, and say that if you promote information regarding that, you are promoting the "Islamofascist Myth", and are being a racist? I'd be interested to hear what you have to say since that is a focus of your research, and you are a Muslim. Thanks.

    Nafeez Ahmed: Jon, mostly these people largely lack a broader political or historical consciousness. obviously i think this is a ridiculous position to take. it comes from a total lack of familiarity with the politics of the muslim world, as well as with the development of us-uk unconventional warfare doctrines after ww2. in particular, the anomalies surrounding the alleged hijackers do not have easy answers - the problem is people like easy simple answers. they divide things up into simplistic binary choices, either 'this' or 'that', 'us' against 'them', etc. ironically, it's a very neocon like mentality that does us no favours...

    Jon Gold: Thank you Nafeez for your input. Here is something I wrote on the subject.

    http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/sho...55&postcount=1

    Nafeez Ahmed: i've seen that post. i like it.

    Jon Gold: Nice. Thanks.
    No One Knows Everything. Only Together May We Find The Truth JG


Similar Threads

  1. My Best Experiences In The 9/11 Truth Movement
    By Gold9472 in forum 9/11 Justice Forum
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 09-03-2011, 11:37 PM
  2. The 9/11 Truth Movement Is Gandhi's Movement! "Satyagraha"
    By DemBruceLeeStylez! in forum 9/11 Justice Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-13-2007, 03:07 PM
  3. The Serious Side To The 9/11 Truth Movement
    By Gold9472 in forum 9/11 Justice Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 09-09-2006, 04:44 PM
  4. History Of The 9/11 Truth Movement
    By Gold9472 in forum 9/11 Justice Forum
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-27-2005, 05:07 PM
  5. The 12 Steps Of The 9/11 Truth Movement
    By Gold9472 in forum 9/11 Justice Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-31-2005, 09:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

شات | سعودي كول | سعودي انحراف | ahj |