Interesting
N320AW said:
dMole: Any Boeing engineer, worth his diploma, wouldn't make such silly claims about these " speeds." The numbers are of course, way too low, that it is laughable.
That would be an issue to support with documentation or test data or else to take up with either Joe Keith or the female Boeing engineer in the telephone call. I have never claimed to have nor have ever worked for Boeing or been a certified pilot. I have however worked in aerospace/defense engineering, and I contend that Boeing and others do not have the "markets cornered" on mathematics, physics, aerodynamics, hydrodynamics, metallurgy, materials science, error analysis, or forensic research/investigation. Furthermore, USAF 84 RADES/FBI compiled the .XLS radar data (released in Oct. 2007, after a third party's FOIA request) that I independently audited (from the .ISO file that I downloaded).
N320AW said:
Something else of interest about aircraft in general. Sometime in the 1980's, a disgruntled/fired employee of PSA airlines in CA entered the cockpit of a BAE-146 and shot both pilots. He then pushed the control wheel down and entered a vertical dive until the aircraft impacted the ground near Paso Robles, CA. Witnesses stated they heard two explosions prior to impact. The first, was the sonic boom created by this not very aerodynamic 4 engine jet . . .the second explosion was the aircraft's vertical impact. NTSB determined there was no aircraft parts far away from the wreckage. This indicates the aircraft did not breakup while exceeding the speed of sound. A B767 could very easily exceed the speed of sound in a powered steep descent. Of course, I don't feel any of this reflects on 9-11-01.
I agree with you that the BAe-146-200 of PSA Flight #1771 and a Boeing 767/757 (ambiguity per Kean-Hamilton Committee/FEMA/NIST/USAF/FBI) is something of an apples-to-cherries comparison. According to the FAA datasheet for a BAe-146, its "speeds" are listed as:
M_mo = 0.70 (standard, 0.73 optional)
V_mo (to 8000 feet) = 250 KIAS
V_mo (8000 - 22 950 feet) = 300 KIAS
V_mo (T.O.) = 160 KIAS
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgMakeModel.nsf/0/14846A9C50743A18862572B3005354A8?OpenDocument
The NTSB Incident Docket says:
http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X32679&key=1
"
NTSB Identification:
DCA88MA008 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number
34799.
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier PACIFIC SOUTHWEST AIRLINES
Accident occurred Monday, December 07, 1987 in SAN LUIS OBISPO, CA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 1/4/1989
Aircraft: BRITISH AEROSPACE BAE-146-200, registration: N350PS
Injuries: 43 Fatal.A RECENTLY DISCHARGED USAIR EMPLOYEE BOARDED PSA FLT 1771 AFTER HAVING LEFT A GOODBYE MESSAGE WITH FRIENDS. HE BYPASSED SECURITY AND CARRIED ABD A BORROWED 44 CALIBER PISTOL. A NOTE WRITTEN BY THIS PSGR, FOUND IN THE WRECKAGE, THREATENED HIS FORMER SUPERVISOR AT USAIR, WHO WAS ABOARD THE FLT. AT 1613, THE PLT RPTD TO OAKLAND ARTCC THAT HE HAD AN EMERGENCY AND THAT GUNSHOTS HAD BEEN FIRED IN THE AIRPLANE. WITHIN 25 SECONDS, OAKLAND CTR CONTROLLERS OBSERVED THAT PSA 1771 HAD BEGUN
A RAPID DESCENT FM WHICH IT DID NOT RECOVER.
WITNESSES ON THE GND SAID THE AIRPLANE WAS INTACT AND THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF FIRE BEFORE THE AIRPLANE STRUCK THE GND IN A STEEP NOSE-DOWN ATTITUDE. THE CVR TAPE REVEALED THE SOUNDS OF A SCUFFLE AND SEVERAL SHOTS WHICH WERE APPARENTLY FIRED IN OR NEAR THE COCKPIT. THE PISTOL WAS FOUND IN THE WRECKAGE WITH 6 EXPENDED ROUNDS. FAA RULES PERMITTED AIRLINE EMPLOYEES TO BYPASS SECURITY CHECKPOINTS.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
CONTROL INTERFERENCE..INTENTIONAL..PASSENGER
SABOTAGE..INTENTIONAL..PASSENGER
EMOTIONAL REACTION..PASSENGER
Contributing FactorsSECURITY..INADEQUATE..COMPANY/OPERATOR MANAGEMENT
PROCEDURE INADEQUATE..COMPANY/OPERATOR MANAGEMENT
INSUFF STANDARDS/REQUIREMENTS,OPERATION/OPERATOR..FAA(ORGANIZATION)"
I found no evidence of explosions, velocity estimates, or sonic booms at NTSB.
Much like 9/11/2001, futher investigation revealed conflicting information:
http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-pa1771.shtml
"The sound of the gunshot is picked up on the cockpit voice recorder, and seconds later the sound of the cockpit door opening is heard. A female, presumed to be a Flight Attendant, advises the cockpit crew that “we have a problem.” The Captain replies with “what kind of problem?” Burke then appears at the cockpit door and announces “I'm the problem,” simultaneously firing two more shots that fatally injure both pilots.
Several seconds later, the CVR picks up increasing windscreen noise as the airplane pitches down and begins to accelerate. A final gunshot is heard as Burke fatally shoots himself.
Airspeed continues to build until 13,000 feet, when traveling at a velocity of 1.2x Mach, the aircraft breaks apart and the Flight Recorders cease functioning.
All 44 passengers and crew aboard PSA Flight 1771 died as the aircraft crashed into a Farmer's field in the Santa Ana Hills."
Did the BAe 146 break up? Did it "crash" intact into the farmer's field? Do we trust the eyewitnesses or the "broken" flight data recorder (presumably last logged at 13,000 feet AGL)? Do we trust the engineers who have worked for Boeing? Would the UA175 Boeing 757/767 (especially the engines and control surfaces) survive and continue to operate MANEUVERABLY at 500 mph at 700-1000 feet ASL?
I suspect that one would have better luck gathering facts on PSA 1771 (which TRULY WAS hijacked with a .44 revolver IMHO), from the multiplying inconsistencies that I and others have already found in AA11, AA77, UA175, and UA93 data and "official" documents/reports.
