Gatekeeping Against The Concrete Core

[Christophera]

Three months back I was banned at loose Change forum for using evidence and reason to support the concrete core. A moderator there, IVXX, and a few others take, without question, the description of FEMA of the core of the towers even though, with the steel core columns FEMA describes, free fall is impossible within what was seen and heard on 9-11 at the WTC. Even though no image showing the supposed steel core columns from the demolition has ever been produced from the demolition images which shows the steel core columns at some elevation, in the core area. Here is a accounting of that which I've compiled on pages I made to document what is disinformation and crippling the 9-11truth movement.

http://algoxy.com/psych/whatis9-11_loose-change.html

I have consistently, by using demo images and logic, show that misrepresentations of construction photos or misinterpretations of demo images cannot be used to support the steel core columns. The quality questions I have asked for, the explanations of WHY the steel columns are never seen or HOW free fall is created within what was seen and heard remain completely unanswered.

We have a profound event here. Two towers, quite identical in critical ways have fallen at near free fall completely to the ground. Clearly, a primary question MUST be "what kind of structure can do this?" Then, "How?"

A major factor must be apart of the equation of the acceptable explanation. free fall must be explained within what was seen. No explanation that does not do that can be accepted. Currently the only explanation that does this is the one that use the concrete core because concrete can be fractured by a small amount of optimally placed explosive to fall instantly, steel cannot.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Anyway I've been banned again posting a thread about gatekeeping against the concrete core. I cannot even view the board.

Here is the error message I get.

This menu has been disabled

Loose Change Forum

Board Message
Sorry, an error occurred.

The error returned was:

You do not have permission to view this board

Here is the thread post I started at Loose Change theis morning prior to being banned again.

This is a whole issue on its own after 10's of thousands of posts spread over 4 years on a thread across the spectrum of 9-11 board seeking a realistic explanation for free fall.

People who say they do not believe the governments account/explanation support unquestioningly the FEMA description of the core of the towers. They do not answer logical questions that might support the steel core assertions, they have never produced an image which shows any of the supposed 47, 1300 foot tall columns at some elevation off the ground, in the core area. Ground zero images do not show steel core columns which have suffered collapse or bending, and breaking. GZ shows neatly cut columns with smooth square cut ends. Supported of the FEMA steel core have never provided and explanation for these square cut ends or the lack of bent/broken core columns. I know those columns were "interior box columns" which were a part of the exterior steel framework. I explain how they were cut within a "built to demolish" scenario which provides a realistic and feasible explanation for free fall and many other things.

Cutting charges built into the floors

The only problem many people have with the concrete core and the "built to demolish scenario" is the secrecy. How could it be built with explosives inside? How could a 1300 foot tall concrete tube be built inside and 33 years later nobody know?

Consider "Cold war Secrecy". Consider control of media and information. Consider, we do not know everything about the mind and memory, if images, film and video are removed, is all we have to document what existed.

Consider, gatekeeping against the concrete core supports and impossibility while obscuring the possible. If this is not true, then let some one post a detailed explanation for how the supposed 47 steel core columns were cut to appear as they do in GZ images and completely disappear from demo images while creating free fall. All fact which deserve explanation IF we are to relinquish the ONLY explanation for free fall which is completely comprehensive to the event.

If gatekeeping IS NOT what the deniers of concrete core are doing. Then they will post what they ARE doing here in this thread. Or explanations of how the supposed steel columns were cut or images of them in the core area at elevations from the demo images.

This thread is specifically for the deniers of the concrete core to say WHY they work so hard to dismiss all information about the concrete core or what rational purpose they expect that denial to serve.

REQUIREMENTS OF CREDIBILITY:We know there was a core, if one core didn't exist, then the other did.

For anybody posting who presents a purpose or reason for saying "no concrete", in order for them to be credible, the post must also explain HOW the supposed 47 steel core columns were cut to create near free fall which ALSO explains why they are NEVER seen in images of the demolition.

Confirm, on this site where many images of the concrete core are seen, or pieces of it at least, NO STEEL COLUMNS ARE SEEN INSIDE THE CORE AREA. There are also links to sites, quotes and reports of the WTC engineers and other engineers regarding the concrete core. The is some confusion tho because of the missing blueprints. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evid...lueprints.html

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

If it is asserted the steel core columns were not cut then it must be explained why they are unseen in demolition images.

Below is the site which explains free fall realistically.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

The built to demolish scenario is the only possible way to get enough explosives placed optimally and distributed well enough to create this. Look at all the concrete in that explosive debris wave!

[image]http://algoxy.com/psych/images/corefacesexplodinglines.jpg[/img]

At the bottom of this page,

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11corexplosions.html

you will find an explanation for the red and yellow lines in the above image which are logical and totally accommodate free fall and total pulverization.

Is it logical to take without question the word of FEMA which disallows a feasible explanation for free fall? Is it logical to refuse to let people use evidence and reason to support a structure that IS SEEN (steel core columns are not) in the quest for truth?

If it is, it means that the truth is a social matter of opinion and has nothing to do with the facts.

[Gold9472]

Christopher, can I ask you a question without it turning into an argument? You've been at this for quite a long time. From what I can see, you spend the majority of your time "debating" what happened. What kind of activism do you do or have done?

[Eckolaker]

I tend to have to agree with Jon here. We could debate back and forth which is the correct design for the WTC, but in the end, its activism that is going to get our message across. CD and the concrete core or lack there of within the WTC has little to do with being active.

As many will tell you, 9/11 truth will come out. Whether or not "they" want it to. After all is said and done and those truly responsible have been convicted in a court of law, the state of the concrete core prior to 9/11 will be of minor value.

Think Global, act local.

[Christophera]

Christopher, can I ask you a question without it turning into an argument? You've been at this for quite a long time. From what I can see, you spend the majority of your time "debating" what happened. What kind of activism do you do or have done?

I'm ready to do any kind available and have done all kinds available. I'd love to find somebody who has high quality video clip to collaborate with and make an alternative video to the ones available. I've asked Eric Hufschmid who I know, he lives near by, but he won't do it. There is very little 9-11 activism to take part in except message boards as far as I can tell. It's weird.

I take my 400 watt PA into the park and talk about "built to demolish towers". Some passer bys love it, others are appalled. We had a 9-11 town hall type thing in 2004 here in Santa Barbara and I went to that and spoke to the panel, Cynthia Mckinney was among them. She is right on and knows that everything is just screwed since the 2000 election. She knows it was a demo. There are good politicians that want to do something but the conspiracy stuff is just too sketchy and hairy for their carreers. I wish to give them a nice, politaically safe MIHOP with the FEMA core lie to work with, but the truth movement has been infiltrated heavily, successfully and attitude controls it so the needed assistence ain't there to get this done. The perps are successful with the DARPA financed web and carefully designed psyops.

I don't debate what happened, others do. I saw the 1990 documentary, I know what the core was. I understood every word of that 2 hour show (except for the 20 minutes I missed). I have experience with high explosives, I know a high speed series of detonations when I see them. I know they are "well contained" when I see them and I hear the recordings. I know the implications of these things. I been a welder for 35 years and know the difference between tempered steel and mild steel and what it looks like under varying conditions of failure.

People pretend to debate with me, most of them. Occasionally a few knowledgeable people post and ask good questions or make good critical observations based on the limited information they have of what I share. I answer their questions specifically and IF they have integrity they quietly go away OR they post a big compliment and quietly go away knowing that I've just about nailed the event down. I wish they would stay and build upon the agreement we have, but they are afraid to.

This is not arrogance I speak from, not like I feel I "know it all" or anything. I simply know what I know and it IS ENOUGH to be certain of what I say. Sure there are experts in these fields that know much more than I do and they are afraid to speak out. I understand that. So I speak out and demand to be reasoned with in order for challengers to qualify under criteria of logic.

If in asking others who are trying to debate, who do not know, to explain critical issues I have with their assertions or beliefs is debating, then I don't know what debating is. Why should I compromise what I know? How will that serve us? The perps have designed the entire opposition to 9-11 truth years before 9-11. The expect people to make compromise or support compromise, and I know that. From my perspective there was one event, and only one event. I know what happened and I try to reason with others to get them to logically see the errors of their misconceptions. Most often they do not reason.

They use the "opinions" of others and make judgments based on that, end of story, I'm banned over and over. Compromise is no better.

If others do not reason, this makes them "unreal", "phoney" "pretend", IF they believe what they are doing is reasonable. From my position, one actually has to "reason" to be "reasonable". If one does not know enough, does not have enough experience, they cannot reason and they logically should not even try. A large portion of those in the 9-11 movement on the web seem to be that way. Logically, until they show me otherwise, I must view them as "unreal." This medium lacks everything necessary to evaluate the sincerity of those one interacts with except the aspects I've mentioned here.

Or, we could all be fakes, and none of us would know it. It is only by what we actually do that we have any real clue. See my web site. I actually built it myself from images I found or that were provided to me on the web.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

I know I've created the only web site in existence that actually provides a feasible and realistic explanation for what happened to the towers. When I see another site that does something simsialr, I will know it. I will examine it very carefully. If it appears more deeply based in reason and the reality of materials and design involved, I will adjust my position accordingly. So far I've seen no such site. I've seen a great deal of speculation and most of it properly presents itself as that. The authors know they are not explaining what happened.

Well, ............ I know I am explaining what happened not debating "what happened". If people cannot believe that I can do that, then reason with me and logically show me that I cannot do such. Because of scraps of data from that 1990 documentary, I know 'I've got it right.
As time passes and those folks on the web, the "debaters" come by and try to debate with me, presenting or "misrepresenting" their "evidence". I find they are actually bringing me information I can use. I actually understand the images they "misrepresent." I know what I'm looking at, they don't.

Just like the onlooking viewer is appalled that such conflict exists in the truth movement, unaware that there is a very good chance that half of it is fake. Because they do not have the experience and knowledge, they don't know which half. Of course they will most often go along with the tendency which is to use "opinion" to determine what the truth is. A few I'm sure go out and tactfully check on my assertions by consulting with experts without letting on they are trying to determine if I know what I'm talking about. They have returned to solemnly say that my assertions are for the most part accurate, then they go away having contributed all they have the courage to. God bless them.

[Christophera]

I tend to have to agree with Jon here. We could debate back and forth which is the correct design for the WTC, but in the end, its activism that is going to get our message across. CD and the concrete core or lack there of within the WTC has little to do with being active.

If we participate in activism promoting an impossibility we will not succeed. The perps know this and count on it.

As many will tell you, 9/11 truth will come out. Whether or not "they" want it to. After all is said and done and those truly responsible have been convicted in a court of law, the state of the concrete core prior to 9/11 will be of minor value.

Think Global, act local.

The perps have though about this very, very carefully, they are not dummies, and by the time the truth is ready to come out. You and I are going to too busy trying to survive to bother with it. Everybody else too. We got one chance, this is it.

My thoughts are so global that most have to study just to follow them effectively. Not speaking from arrogance there, just an inability to stimulate needed and desired function from knowledge based in; history, science, astronomy and psychology that is totally cognizant of the removal of information from our western society. Not cogizant of all that was removed, but knowing that it was removed and knowing much of what WAS removed which is creitical to knowing what is happening now and how limited our options really are.

http://www.realityzone.com/hiddenagenda2.html

It is real. Global history was re written. Knowledge removed, wholesale.

Regarding local. Santa Barbara is the spiritual center of secret societies in America and therefore NOTHING happens here, no matter how hard I work to "act locally." Still I'm always putting efforts into it.

Nonetheless, nice little saying.

[AuGmENTor]

She is right on and knows that everything is just screwed since the 2000 election.

My humble opinion is it's been screwed up ALOT longer than that. Are you of the mind that this problem can be solved by voting for anyone at all on the ballots? You see, it seems to me taht even if you DID get someone in office who wasn't hopelessly corrupt, they would be suicided/ killed as soon as they started to make any sort of a positive change. I was in that mess of shit. It doesn't matter if those columns were made of fluffenutter, they came down. Doesn't change that the crime scene was excavated before a proper investigation could be conducted. If you do this to fill time that you feel you NEED to spend on the movement, hey great. I'm a bit more simple than all of the things discussed in here. Alot of it goes over my head, and I'm not ashamed to say that. But I DO get what alot of people miss: This did not happen on 911. It happened in the decades PRIOR to 911. Where is the outrage over Pearl Harbor, which is now practically ADMITTED to being a conspiracy? Or the JFK assassination, which has ALOT of credible evidence pointing to it being one also? Last time I checked, there was no statute of limitations on murder. We have been conditioned to accept these things. Gradually, over time. Sad to say, there is not a person alive you will elect into office that will change this ONE BIT. This monster that has taken control of ALL of our lives has to be completely destroyed, and a smaller, tamer, populace controlled monster put in it's place. Take that as you will.

[royster]

"Hope Ranch" is in Santa Barbera; I worked there a while. I was unaware of the secret societies, but then again; they're secret. At any rate, many of us are working frantically on the metaphysical aspect you are trying to indicate. I understand your urgency. Breathe, Critter.

[Christophera]

My humble opinion is it's been screwed up ALOT longer than that.

Good call, I say badly screwed up since 1950.

Are you of the mind that this problem can be solved by voting for anyone at all on the ballots? You see, it seems to me that even if you DID get someone in office who wasn't hopelessly corrupt, they would be suicided/ killed as soon as they started to make any sort of a positive change.

Within the current world view held by most people, yes. That view is based on what they know and this,

http://www.realityzone.com/hiddenagenda2.html

means that there is knowledge they don't have, but could have, that alters that world view in ways they won't believe until it happens.

I was in that mess of shit. It doesn't matter if those columns were made of fluffenutter, they came down. Doesn't change that the crime scene was excavated before a proper investigation could be conducted. If you do this to fill time that you feel you NEED to spend on the movement, hey great.

It is true that the violation of due process should be enough for most people, but people have become acustomed to accepting lawlessness from government in a bigger way since iran/contra. Meaning that they don't respond to the due process violation properly. If there is a movement, it will because it works with actual information rather than fluffenutter.

If you attempt to influence people with fluffenutter, they will ignore you. FEMA said there were steel core columns (fluffenutter), there were not, there was a concrete core. Columns existed but not in the core. If FEMA deceived the county about the structure, THAT is something the people will take notice of and, it is safe for politicians to push, almost nothing else about 9-11 is. Why do you think the gatekeeping is so persistent on the concrete core?

90 percent of what 9-11 buzz is about requires a lawful government to do anything about, including due process violations. Well, ...... that is one thing we do not have. If the movement takes it upon itself to use reason to decide what is important to talk about rather than opinion and the concrete core becomes and issue, we will find a copy of that 1990 documentary called "The Construction of the Twin Towers" and the lie is OVER. Any American worth a vote will take notice and object to that lie because all of the real ones are weirded out about the free fall issue and the lie is too closely related to ignore.

I'm a bit more simple than all of the things discussed in here. Alot of it goes over my head, and I'm not ashamed to say that. But I DO get what alot of people miss: This did not happen on 911. It happened in the decades PRIOR to 911. Where is the outrage over Pearl Harbor, which is now practically ADMITTED to being a conspiracy? Or the JFK assassination, which has ALOT of credible evidence pointing to it being one also? Last time I checked, there was no statute of limitations on murder. We have been conditioned to accept these things. Gradually, over time. Sad to say, there is not a person alive you will elect into office that will change this ONE BIT. This monster that has taken control of ALL of our lives has to be completely destroyed, and a smaller, tamer, populace controlled monster put in it's place. Take that as you will.

You are right with that. It goes way back. But in 1950 or thereabout it really got ugly. But the history is subtle.

It is seen with the advances that made the world look at America after the reformation era civil rights acts with awe and wonder or pride in humanity. Then it started getting messed after that where corporations were given the right to free speech, something never intended. Actually something disallowed.

Then again, and I repeat, no need to dispair or give up.

Within the current world view held by most people, yes. That view is based on what they know and this,

http://www.realityzone.com/hiddenagenda2.html

means that there is knowledge they don't have, but could have, that alters that world view in ways they won't believe until it happens.

Good stuff, you got a clue.

[AuGmENTor]

If you attempt to influence people with fluffenutter, they will ignore you.

Heh, they seem to be ignoring us anyway.

Then again, and I repeat, no need to dispair or give up.

Never.

Let me ask you another question: From the first person who questioned the official story, until the second you read these words, where have we gotten? What would an overall progress indicator show to represent what has happened since day 1 of this movement?
(OK 2 questions) Next: What is the ultimate goal/ ideal solution? Do we just push till Bush and Co. swing? And then all goes back to normal? I don't ask this because I'm afraid I will have nothing to do if the movement ended. Indeed, I would prefer none of this existed. But it does, and like the other conspiracies I mentioned in my earlier post, I think that once THAT is proven, we just shift gears until ALL of this shit is fixed. But I kinda want to hear what someone elses thought is on this. I have asked this question dozens of times on this board, and you wouldn't believe how often it is just ignored. In fact, I dont think I have had it answered yet. (Gold kinda did, but he doesnt count {hehe, Jon})

[MrDark71]

I think we've gotten to the point that there are so many people intrigued by this that it is slowly proliferating itself, albeit negatively at this point, into the media. It's only a matter of time until more and more people with a clue start to question what they have been told. I doubt we'll ever get people to embrace any theory wholeheartedly....but all we really need to do is raise the question...people can think for themselves...and will.