can you be pro-Israel and still be a 9/11 truther?

[thumper]

Why are you linking to this crap? This is Settler Radio - the radio/tv/website of Arutz Sheva (Channel 7)/Israel National News - the mouthpiece of the Ideological Settler Movement (the same fuckers who glassed a human rights worker the other day). The offices for this propaganda group is located in an illegal settlement outside Ramallah - Ramallah is in P.A.L.E.S.T.I.N.E., not Israel. Maybe you don't think that's relevant? Maybe it's not in the particular context of this discussion, but it's worth pointing out for others who may not know much about Arutz Sheva and their neo-frontiersmen ideology. This station is to the Settler Movement what FOX News is to the Neo-cons.

you should try listening to alternative sources of information. if we are to believe that the world is controlled through dialectics, then the truth is usually something in the middle.

im not saying that the palestinians are neccessarily evil or even the israelis, but let's think about this for a moment purely in terms of practicality.

Legalities aside, Israel in relation to the Palestinians have a massive military and economical advantage, and yet, almost exactly like how the US deals with others in terms of diplomacy, fails spectacularily. Myron Fagan explains this rather well. The fact that they refuse to deploy the neccessary resources to effectively eliminate the terrorists says to me that the higher ups are interested in a protracted war, just like in Iraq. Because we know that war is the most effective tool in social engineering.

number two, we have to acknowledge the fact that refugees or people without a country, is a ongoing thing throughout human history. What makes the palestinians different? 1) for some reason, the surrounding arab countries absolutely REFUSE to let them in, and when they do, they are given refugee status where they live in tents and aren't even allowed to own property or have a job. Coupled with the fact that Palestinians recieve 30,000 bucks compensation if a family member becomes a suicide bomber. At this rate, don't you think that there are vested interests in using a radicalized population to be used as a proxy against Israel? This to me is analogous to how the CIA brings crack into black neighbourhoods, and how welfare is engineered to destroy black families. The result is a criminal underclass that neccesitates a police state.

Remember, that's the goal in everything.

Now, I only listned to the first five minutes or so of it. It seemed to be concered with an anti-Gaza 'disengagement' protest from last year. What exactly is your point in posting this? Under international law (and indeed, basic fucking decency) these settlements of 8,000 Israelis within the Occupied Territory of Gaza were illegal. These people had no right to be there, and were finally removed after something like 30 years of illegal occupation. A small victory for the Palestinians. However, there are still 400,000 illegal settlers occupying the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

i think this is debateable.

Let's be clear, instead of linking me to INN (as you've done several times in the past), please clarify YOUR position on this. Do you support the Settler Movement and their attempts to colonise [what's left of] Palestine? No evasion as to what is or isn't Palestine - Palestine, as defined by international law, is the territories occupied by Israel after the 1967 war (West Bank - including Jordan Valley and East Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip).

my reason for posting the link was because i wanted to respond to someone who thinks Israel is 'running shit', because if they are fighting with a hand behind their back, they're obviously not. im just saying that there is a hidden hand, sorta like the American Neo-cons, operating in their own government then that doesn't make a player, but rather a pawn.

Actually, its far more complicated than that. Many Rabbis say that Jews are not allowed on the Temple Mount, for religious reasons to do with the Holy of Holies. Others (mainly from the rightwing of Judaism) argue otherwise. I'm not a Jew, nor do I have much interest in the Jewish religion, so I don't know the ins and outs of it. Personally, I think Jews should have the right to pray on Temple Mount if they wish. However, lets be clear about this, Temple Mount (once again), is in OCCUPIED East Jerusalem - and I find it hard to believe that any resolution to this issue of religious freedom can come about while the occupation remains in place.

well the point i was trying to make is that again, the Israeli government doesn't represent, and mostly likely wants to destroy the Jewish people. Kinda like how the US government refuses to close the border.

The second part of your argument is a non-sequitur. What has a gay pride march got to do with Temple Mount? Homosexuality is legal in Israel, and homosexuals are allowed to hold demostrations under Israeli law. The wishes of a bunch of crazed Jewish and Muslim clerics don't nullify this fact (interestingly, gay-hate seemed to have briefly united rightwing Islam and rightwing Judaism for this demonstration). As it was, the march was re-routed, but there was still violence by anti-gay Jews in the week leading up to it and a small confrontation at the demo - thankfully, unlike last year's World Pride event, no-one was killed this year. If I remember correctly, there was even a 'holy war' declared on the police by an ultra-Orthodox Rabbical court. However, I really doubt that the "overwhelming majority" of Israelis were opposed to the march, though I may be wrong on that point - not that it matters because even if they were, homosexuals still have the right to march.

i'm juxtaposing how it's possible to be concerned about offending muslims by having jews pray on the Temple Mount, and yet not applying the same standard to Jerusalem in term of the gay march. Im just saying that the religious foundation of Israel is either being subverted or never existed in the first place. this figures greatly into the idea that the country is Luciferian, whose MO is to counterfeit everything that is God's, and instead plan it for evil. Kinda like how the Pope has inverted crosses everywhere, or how famous churches and cathedrals have occultic architecture.

Israel is Jewish and Zionist state. In fact that's what Zionism means, creating a Jewish State, ethically, culturally and religiously. The thing is, Judaism is split into three main camps, Orthodox, Conservative and Reform. In 1948 700,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from what became the State of Israel in order to preserve the 'Jewish nature' of the State. And now Israel's new Deputy-PM is calling for the ethnic cleansing of the rest of the Arabs from Israel (that is, pre-1967 Israel as demarcated by the 1967 Green Line), and the annexation of the illegal settlements in Palestine, (ahem) 'in return'.

again, i think you should give the link a chance. i've really learned a lot from it and it's cleared some of these things up for me.

a) I don't think those who founded Israel were particularly 'evil' (I don't think Hitler or Stalin, or Mao, or George Bush are evil either, because evil is a concept I don't believe in). As I said above, and said many times elsewhere on this site, Israel was founded by Zionists (largely secular, and quasi-socialist), based upon the explusion of Palestinains from their homeland. In my opinion, this was wrong both from a moral standpoint, and from the standpoint of fighting anti-semitism.

actually, if you browse your link you'll find this section:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ra...weissmandl.cfm

basically, it indicts the zionists for PROMPTING and ENGINEERING anti-semitism in Nazi Germany for the very reason to send them fleeing to Palestine. And let's not forget the Jewish Rothschild's who bankrolled the whole thing.

Henry Makow has written extensively on this

http://www.savethemales.ca/000482.html

and Myron Fagan says more or less the same thing.

b) If you're using the Bible as a source on modern history and current politcial events, then what can I say? I'm dumbfounded that in 2006 that kind of thing still exists.

you can't say that the Bible/Koran/Torah doesn't have influence on the Geo-political scene. If anything, many people argue that that is the overarching agenda. how else do you have a country like Israel, where it's exiles from 2000 years ago come back to form their country? or what about all the NWO stuff? Some people accuse Bush of wanting to bring the Armageddon. and let's not forget Amadijnajad's gambit about how he'd like to bring the 'mahdi'.

everywhere we look there are religions that tells us we are the precipice of something great. a new age, or NWO. we have to look carefully into these things.

[MrDark71]

To believe Israel is behind 911 is a stretch. Israeli-US political ties may have influenced the media's response (or lack thereof) but even that suggests that the jews control media....which is absurd (i.e. The PTL network).

So....being an Israeli supporter and a truth seeker is certainly not hypocritical. In my opinion the international drug trade connection makes the most rational sense as a reason for 911...and the jews don't control that racket.....the "Joe Kennedy's" do