What are your thoughts on UBL?

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10-15-2005, 03:22 PM
PhilosophyGenius

What are your thoughts on UBL?

2 conclusions can be drawn about Osama bin Laden:

1. He's a CIA puppet (always was, always has been)
2. He's a real jihadist who agreed to take responisbility for 9/11

I think theory 2 makes more sense. I agree with the "official story" that bin Laden, after being trained by the CIA to fight the Soviets, returned home, and after a period of time began to hate the U.S. because of it's policies of supporting Israel and so forth. After the American soldiers were based in Saudi Arabia and attacked Iraq, he had enough and began to speak out against the royal family. After he recieved threats from the royals he left to Sudan with the help of Saudi "sympathizers". Then he began to rebuild al-Qaeda as a network and moved back to Afghanistan where he trained jihadist and launched attacks. My opinion is that he was offered by the CIA (one way or another) to take credit for the 9/11 attacks and he took it because of the worldwide attention and respect (from many muslims) he would get. Also, it would give him what he's always wanted, which is an all out war between the west and Islam. Something that couldn't be done with mere car bombs. That's why he agreed to take responsiblity, in my opinion.

Now some would argue that he's a CIA puppet, which is why I started this thread. Let's debate it on this forum for everyone to read.
10-19-2005, 01:30 PM
911=inside job

first of all i think he is dead.... i think is a mix of 1 and 2.. i dont know that any of the videos of him are real either.. so i dont know if he ever claimed to have a hand in it...
10-19-2005, 02:46 PM
somebigguy

He definitely is CIA. Secondly, he probably is dead as Inside Job thinks, otherwise he'd be making all the appearances rather than his lieutenants. However, he did make that appearance right before the election, so maybe he still is alive.

In any event, I think he was involved in training the supposed hijackers for the job, leaving a nice big trail of bread crumbs for the authorities to find after the attacks, all understanding that these guys were really just patsies and the Yanks were really orchestrating the thing.

When you think about all the warnings the U.S. received and ignored, it seems that honest federal agents were doing their job, tracking down what looked like an Al Qaeda attack and trying to prevent it. Of course, the U.S. did their best to quash all these investigations since they were the ones truly behind it. This must be the case, why would the U.S. plant stories of forewarning??? They weren't counting on federal agents figuring out the attacks and trying to blow the whistle, so they did their best to cover it up, but did a piss poor job of it.

One thing that puzzles me is Osama initially denied the attacks. You'd think he'd be quick to accept the blame based on the above scenario, maybe there was a reason for him to initially deny it????
10-19-2005, 04:51 PM
PhilosophyGenius

There is zero proof bin Laden is dead. And I'm pretty sure all the tapes of him are really him in it or his voice, but the one where he's talking to those dudes in a room is clearly fake. And I really don't think there's any solid proof that he's CIA. My guess is that him and his guys really planned 9/11, and who knows, the CIA helped them out by giving the Saudi's clearence to come here, rigged the wtc with bombs, ect. Which would explain the arrests of key al-Qaeda leaders like KSM and Ramzi bin Alsheib and them acting like they did it. Maybe they didn't know the U.S. govt was involved. Just a theory.

P.S. Osama never denied he orchestrated the attacks, he just didn't directly claim responsility for it until a while after.
10-19-2005, 05:59 PM
Gold9472

What do you mean there's no proof that he's CIA?
10-19-2005, 06:00 PM
Gold9472

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp

"His CIA ties are only the beginning of a woeful story"
10-19-2005, 06:10 PM
911=inside job

HAHHAHA!!!! i think pg took some acid today...
10-19-2005, 06:13 PM
Gold9472

Well, it's completely obvious that Osama Bin Laden had PLENTY of CIA ties during the Afghanistan/Russia War. He would recruit soldiers FOR the CIA, through the Pakistani ISI, and they kept a tally of them through the database literally known as "Al-Qaeda".
10-19-2005, 06:15 PM
somebigguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilosophyGenius

There is zero proof bin Laden is dead. And I'm pretty sure all the tapes of him are really him in it or his voice, but the one where he's talking to those dudes in a room is clearly fake. And I really don't think there's any solid proof that he's CIA. My guess is that him and his guys really planned 9/11, and who knows, the CIA helped them out by giving the Saudi's clearence to come here, rigged the wtc with bombs, ect. Which would explain the arrests of key al-Qaeda leaders like KSM and Ramzi bin Alsheib and them acting like they did it. Maybe they didn't know the U.S. govt was involved. Just a theory.

P.S. Osama never denied he orchestrated the attacks, he just didn't directly claim responsility for it until a while after.

Actually, the day of the attacks he stated in no uncertain terms that he was not involved. In fact he suggested it was a rogue unit in the U.S. government....
10-19-2005, 06:16 PM
Gold9472

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebigguy

Actually, the day of the attacks he stated in no uncertain terms that he was not involved. In fact he suggested it was a rogue unit in the U.S. government....

Source...
10-19-2005, 06:16 PM
Gold9472

I hate to be a ball-buster with sourcing, but it's imperative for later use...
10-19-2005, 06:18 PM
somebigguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold9472

I hate to be a ball-buster with sourcing, but it's imperative for later use...

We're just chatting dude. What, I gotta justify everything I say to you now?
10-19-2005, 06:19 PM
somebigguy

http://www.jsonline.com/news/nat/sep...den-denial.asp
10-19-2005, 06:20 PM
Gold9472

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebigguy

We're just chatting dude. What, I gotta justify everything I say to you now?

Sorry... I guess I'm pushing my standards on you.
10-19-2005, 06:20 PM
Gold9472

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebigguy

http://www.jsonline.com/news/nat/sep...den-denial.asp

PERFECT.
10-19-2005, 06:23 PM
somebigguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold9472

Sorry... I guess I'm pushing my standards on you.

Well fuck you and your standards. :-)

(I gotta put a little smiley face or Jon thinks I'm being serious)
10-19-2005, 06:31 PM
Gold9472

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebigguy

Well fuck you and your standards. :-)

(I gotta put a little smiley face or Jon thinks I'm being serious)

Well... the thing about BBs... you can say something... I'll know it's true, other people might know it's true... but a "new" person who reads it might not... you get the idea.
10-19-2005, 11:27 PM
PhilosophyGenius

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebigguy

Actually, the day of the attacks he stated in no uncertain terms that he was not involved. In fact he suggested it was a rogue unit in the U.S. government....

Never heard that before.
10-19-2005, 11:37 PM
PhilosophyGenius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold9472

Well, it's completely obvious that Osama Bin Laden had PLENTY of CIA ties during the Afghanistan/Russia War. He would recruit soldiers FOR the CIA, through the Pakistani ISI, and they kept a tally of them through the database literally known as "Al-Qaeda".

Of course! You didn't think I knew that? (I'm insulted) What I meant was that there was, and is no proof that bin Laden is a CIA asset as of right now. I mean, after the Russian war he went back home and over a period of time became very critical of the U.S. At which point he waged a jihad against America. And like we've discussed before, maybe he kept in contact with a small faction in the CIA and collabortated for 9/11 not knowing the Bush team was involved. Just a theory of mine, makes sense if you think about it.

And regarding the fact that bin Laden "recruit soldiers FOR the CIA, through the Pakistani ISI". I don't think that's factually true. The way the story goes is that bin Laden went with his mentor Abdullah Azzam to Afghanistan and they formed al-Qaeda to keep track of the fighters coming in from around the world. (bin Laden was orginally only a finacier and supporter before joining the war himself). The role the CIA and ISI was supplying weapons and harbor and so forth. That's the only known/proven tie that would directly connect bin Laden with the CIA. As far as the French newspaper which reported that bin Laden meet with CIA guys in 2001, I don't think there's any solid proof to support that.