Has anyone ever checked to see if any planes were missing from the boneyard, or in the military, or talk to people responsible for inventory of those types of things?
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Has anyone ever checked to see if any planes were missing from the boneyard, or in the military, or talk to people responsible for inventory of those types of things?
I've heard that one or more of the alleged planes are still in service, might be interesting if that could be proven.
Michael Ruppert's major argument is the fact that Remote Controlled airplanes were used during "Live Fly" exercises...Quote:
Originally Posted by somebigguy
Ok... where would the military go to get airplanes to be fitted with Remote Controls? A "throwaway" to be used during an exercise...
Or, they went all out, and built new planes just for 9/11.
Either way, if they were Remote Controlled airplanes, there has to be mechanics aware of fitting remote controls on a plane. Where do they do that? What types of planes have been fitted? There have to be records for those kinds of things.
And... they would have to somehow get rid of the actual planes. That's where it starts to sound ridiculous to me.
Or... they had some way to take control of a plane... During an exercise, where "Remote Controlled Planes" are being used, they are already using the technology to do so... maybe that's what they did.
I remember a document stated in "Crossing The Rubicon" that said during an emergency, a plane could be taken control of... it was a procedural document from either the FAA, or the military... I don't remember.
I'm going to eat... let me know your thoughts.
Hey Jon, I've heard of someone who was watching the radar that day that saw the planes actually disappear over the ocean. I don't know if I buy that, sounds kind of risky, the wreckage could wash up somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold9472
However, there is no question that the gov't could stash planes somewhere and strip them down. There is also some talk that a couple of the flights may never have existed, which would resolve most problems. I do believe in the Bumble Planes theory which is why 93 HAD to be shot down, seems to be a bit of evidence to support this too. Especially when Rummie said it was shot down by a missle, then the article you posted this week, plus the witnesses of the additional planes in the area etc.
One day someone is gonna piece all this together, and I think that will be sooner rather than later. Momentum seems to be building at the moment...
I thought they already could until Payne Stewart went down and they couldn't take control of his plane. However, from what I've seen, they have been able to do it since at least the 80s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold9472
Operation Northwoods goes into extreme detail on how to switch a plane in mid flight without being detected, that was back in the 60s. Not sure if it mentioned remote control or not, but I think it may have. Anyway, it's near the end of the Northwoods document where they talk about switching the plane, it is amazing, they had the whole operation planned out, and I believe it included a remote control drone.
911 was Northwoods without question, and that document can point us in the right direction as to what happened on 9/11. Taking another look at that may point us in the right direction as to what happened to the real planes.
gold. the gov can do anything they want!!!!! anything!!!! getting a plane is nothing..
sbg is about the only person that i have met on the net that i allways agree with.... he must be a real thinker...
on a side note, i just finished reading animal farm today and 1984 last week... damn those are some good books....
next is brave new world... HAHHAHAHA!!!! should be good...
sbg, i dont think anyone has ever said they can take the controls of any plane... only ones that have been rigged up for it.. i think...HAHHAHA!!!!
No... I have a document somewhere that talks about taking over a plane during an emergency...Quote:
Originally Posted by 911=inside job
I sent a lot of truthers this question:
Has anyone ever checked to see if any planes were missing from the boneyard, or in the military, or talk to people responsible for inventory of those types of things?
Wayne Madsen's Response
"you're talking about Davis Monthan out near Tuscon, never heard about that... may be worth looking into."
Eric Hufschmid's Response
"Christopher Bollyn asked the military about the Global Hawks and was told that 2 were lost in "ongoing operations." They would not clarify that answer any further, so we are left to wonder about the secrecy."
Hey Inside, I got an image I have to show you. It a classic avatar from the old BBs, you'll get a kick out of it. Jon won't let me use it on this board.Quote:
Originally Posted by 911=inside job
Which one?Quote:
Originally Posted by somebigguy
I just assumed they could, those planes practically fly themselves anyway, the pilot is only needed for landing or taking off.Quote:
Originally Posted by 911=inside job
I read something about this stuff a long time ago, wish I could remember the details. I'll go through my bookmarks and see if I can find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold9472
From Operation Northwoods, declassified government document from 1962. This is the plan rejected by Kennedy and ultimately caused his death. This is THE PLAN for 9/11:
8. It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.
a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.
b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field to Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will coontinue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will being transmitted on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio stations in the Western Hermisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" incident.
-- Later --
b. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly tail-end Charley at considerable interval between aircraft. While near the Cuban Island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. No other calls would be made. The pilot would then fly directly west at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who had performed the mission under an alias, would resume his proper identity and return to his normal place of business. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared.
c. At precisely the same time that the aircraft was presumably shot down a submarine or small surface craft would disburse F-101 parts, parachute, etc., at approximately 15 to 20 miles off the Cuban coast and depart. The pilots returning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew.
Entire document can be found here: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20...northwoods.pdf
Here's an image of some flight paths:
http://www.public-action.com/911/4flights.jpg
Lifted from here:
http://www.public-action.com/911/4flights.html
Notice the extremely sharp turns 3 of the 4 planes made. 77 is the only plane that didn't make one of these turns, but it disappeared off of radar, so its a different story.
Anyway, these sharp turns are almost certainly where the planes were switched as described in the Northwoods document. The military bases in those areas are where the original planes landed and the drones were sent up.
I have read somewhere that military bases did exist near ALL of these locations, I'll try to find that document. Anyway, that is where the planes ended up, from there, its anybody's guess.
There is a massive plane "boneyard" here, near Tucson like Madsen says. A lot of planes end up here because the climate keeps them from rusting apart. The presidental plane used by JFK is kept at Davis Monthan and they do tours and stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold9472
Well.. get your press cap out.Quote:
Originally Posted by pcteaser
I think something that's happening when these questions arise is the pointing- out of the convoluted circular logic the gov't uses when answering questions. For example, someone asks, "What findings have you come up with in terms of the massive amount of insider trading days prior to 9/11?" And the gov't answers, "We have no proof that Al Qaeda benefitted from 9/11, so it's a non-issue."
Same thing here. "Has anyone checked the storage facilities or boneyards for missing planes?" Gov't responds, "You dummies. The planes were hijacked by 19 members of Al Qaeda. How could they have switched planes in mid-air?" And they'll leave it at that.
bump
I suspect that, if you can buy off/intimidate a demolition crew, media, and gov. officials, it would be very easy to buy yourself a mechanic. It would be even easier to retrofit them or buy a brand new plane, especially if it's from boeing. What if they were already fitted years ago. Is that mechanic still alive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold9472
Going after players that seem to have benefitted from gov. handouts and contracts is difficult. They will hide/destroy evidence at all cost, especially if they have something to lose and everything to gain. Much like the confiscated video from the citgo.
Since this thread was created, I've done some research into the claim that DARPA, under contract of the DOD, may have developed technology in the 70's that enables someone to take control of a plane in the event of a hijacking. So as to safely land them. If that's the case, then that fits perfectly into 9/11.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehnyah
Because of the wargames using "Live Fly" drills, they were already set up to control a plane.
consider this:
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* In Aug, 2001, Raytheon engineers successfully landed a unpiloted Boeing 727 by remote control at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. The purpose of the pilotless system was to allow ground controllers to take over the controls of a hijacked aircraft.[27] A combination of GPS Satellite and ground signals were used to orient the aircraft. Raytheon is the manufacturer of the pilotless Global Hawk surveillance aircraft. On Sept 12, 2001, Raytheon issued a statement that four of their high-level officials and engineers were listed among the dead passengers of Flight 11 which was reported as hijacked and crashed on 9/11.[28]
[27]"US Safety System: Kidnapped Machines Land Independently, " Der Spiegel [German newspaper], October 28, 2001, Link
LinkType "raytheon" into search box. Note: Holloman is a German Air Force Base in the U.S.
[28]"Raytheon Mourns Loss of Employees," Press Release, Sept. 12, 2001, Link
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Raytheon to Develop Joint Precision Approach and Landing System
LEXINGTON, Mass., June 17, 1999 -- Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTNA, RTNB) has been awarded a $5.8 million Air Force contract to develop the Joint Precision Approach and Landing System (JPALS).
JPALS is the future multi-service, low-visibility landing system that replaces aging systems with a single technology for all services and missions. These include fixed-base, tactical and shipboard applications. JPALS is a military variant of the Local Area Augmentation System (LAAS) civil landing system technology that will provide improved low-visibility operations in benign and hostile environments and military-civil interoperability. Both the military and civil versions of this technology augment the basic Global Positioning System (GPS) signal providing very precise and reliable landing guidance in a format already familiar to pilots.
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Already working on a "special operation" to invade Afghanistan, but still sitting at AFB Tampa, Florida: Commander Charles Holland.
Not far away from AFB Tampa, Raytheon's Airport Services, a private hangar, which would eventually fly out "high-ranking Saudi royals" and "Bin Laden family members", on their way to New Orleans, right after Sep11th.
There are many speculations, that 9/11 needed some "inside manipulations" for this "military operation". Some also argued, that some of the war drill planes or even the official "hijacked" planes got remote controlled to reach their targets.
The list of the following suggestions includes some programs and institutions, which possibly got infiltrated, sabotaged or otherwise manipulated:
Center for Advanced Aviation System Development (CAASD)
CAASD is the FAA's Federally Funded Research and Development Center.
In 1998, director Amr A. ElSawy was responsible for the establishment and operation of a new MITRE-controlled affiliate (AvInt) and led the development of its Aeronautical Information Services business.
He was also responsible for guidance of the information technology investment strategy and leadership of the international aviation work program in Egypt.
Display Channel Complex Rehost (DCCR)
DCCR had been in use in Ronkonkoma since May 1997. It replaced the Display Channel Complex (DDC)
(see DSR)
Display System Replacement (DSR)
In late 1999, the New York Traffic Control Center in Ronkonkoma started with a transition of the Enhanced Direct Access Radar Channel (EDARC), "providing a highly reliable interface to the National Airspace System (NAS) for control of commercial, general aviation, and military aircraft in the United States".
As we learned in May 2004, it was revealed, that FAA manager Kevin Delaney of Ronkonkoma, destroyed some air traffic controller tapes from September 11th.
Fieldsoft
In October 2000, Don Abbott from the Command Emergency Response Training, eFilms, organised a Pentagon Mass Casualty Exercise (MASCAL), as the crash was called, just one of several scenarios that emergency response teams were exposed in the Office of the Secretaries of Defense conference room.
On Oct. 24, there was a mock terrorist incident at the Pentagon Metro stop and a construction accident. For this case, Abbott built a miniature pentagon building and crashed planes into it.
http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/news_ph...mulate_all.jpg
Don and Bev Abbott worked also on "Abbottville - A Disaster Waiting to Happen" to RRT-4.
Since 1987, Emergency Film Group had already produced and distributed award-winning training films, videos and DVDs of interest to the hazardous materials, counterterrorism, environmental and emergency response.
Among their customers of Emergency Film Group are Boeing, CIA, Department of Defense (Biological Warfare Defense), Department of Homeland Security, Eli Lily, FAA, FBI, FEMA, General Electric, GSA, Honeywell, Lawrence Livermore, Lockheed, Los Alamos, NASA, NSA, Raytheon and Westinghouse.
One of their leading simulation software is FdonScene.
It was George Bush, who erstwhile approved FdonScene, when it was first endorsed by the Texas Fire Chiefs Association, while he was governor (1998).
The Timeline of Fieldsoft (Chandler, AZ):
April 30, 1997
In one of their first press releases, it says, that "the experiences of co-founder Mark Bouchard (a career battalion chief with the Chandler AZ Fire Department) led to development of their products.
These include FDonScene, PDonScene, EMSonScene Incident Command software products.
January 15, 1998
FieldSoft Announces Trial Software Offer
("...You will not be bored for one minute...", Command School, Inc. Lancaster PA)
May 14, 1999
FieldSoft, Inc. announced that the U.S. Air Force Operational Test and Evaluation Center completed a comprehensive field evaluation of FDonScene command, accountability, and pre-plan software.
The evaluation (conducted at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona) comprised of planned exercises and actual emergency responses.
September 4, 2000
FieldSoft announced today that CERT of Indianapolis, IN. has selected FieldSoft's FDonScene software to augment their tactical and incident command training simulation exercises.
Bev Abbott reports that active use of the product is planned for "the start of our 2001 series of trainings".
September 11th, 2001
"Coincidentally", a new trial software of FDonScene (for the fire service) was installed in time on the morning of 9/11.
In a report on the Fieldsoft website, one can read, how it was used:
"...Over 700 victims passed through the Atlantic Highlands Ferry Port in New Jersey following the September 11, 2001 WTC attack. Two fire departments, three local police departments, as well as representatives from county, state, and federal agencies were on hand to assess and assist the victims as they embarked. Emergency units on the scene included 40 ambulances, an FD communications unit, a decontamination unit, and 10 pieces of fire apparatus. A communications unit member on scene at the Port, who had seen a ninety minute demonstration of the software a few days earlier, brought a trial copy of FDonScene on line and used it to track people, resources, and events. A second person watched how the software was being used, and took over operation of it a few hours later. Overall, the software was operated successfully for 14 hours....."
Right after Sep11th, Fieldsoft also hooked up with Aether.
Aether's Chief Executive Officer David Oros was former president of the Wireless Data Group for Westinghouse Electric, where he directed large programs in advanced airborne radar design and development.
Also President Frank Briganti, prior to joining Aether in July of 2000, spent nearly 20 years with Westinghouse Electric Corporation and Northrop Grumman.
Between 2001 and 2002, Briganti focused on Aether's "MobileMAX2" product line inclusive of satellite network operations. Between 2003 and 2004, Fieldsoft also worked with Raytheon and Motorola on new product lines.
In March 2001, the James Baker Institute hosted a Seminar on Micro-Nuclear Technology, together with U.S. and Japanese nuclear scientists, among them Westinghouse Electric and Japan Atomic Power Co. Ltd.
Simulation, War and Space worked hand in hand.
Meanwhile, Westinghouse is providing China with nuclear technology.
China is yet another competitor of Space Technology, including launching recoverable satellites, soft-landing technology, rockets, and outer space exploration.
In October 2000, China had successfully launched 27 foreign-made satellites for users in Pakistan, Australia, Sweden, the United States, the Philippines, as well as domestic users.
Also competing with U.S. and China: Russia.
They just recently replaced their Space Agency Chief with Colonel-General Perminov, previously commander of the army's space division.
In April 2001, Perminov was interviewed on connections between Space Troops' activities and various areas of country's development.
Government Emergency Telecommunications Service (GETS)
In April 1996, Lieutenant General Harry D. Raduege, Jr.
became the program director for GETS.
GETS provides Federal, State and local government National Security and Emergency Preparedness
(NS/EP) users, as well as private sector critical infrastructure users, with a ubiquitous switched voice and voice-band data communications service.
Flight Termination System (FTS)
Developed by SPC International (System Planning Coorporation).
Former Vice President was Dr. Zakheim.
System Planning Corporation developed the Flight Termination System (FTS), a safety and test system for remote control and flight termination of airborne test vehicles.
Doc Zakhaim became later member of the Bush Administration.
Host and Oceanic Computer System Replacement (HOCSR)
HOCSR was in use at the New York FAA Center since February 24, 1998 (see DSR)
Standard Terminal Automation Replacement System (STARS)
In 1997, John M. Shea, Jr., from the National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA) announced the STARS Human Factors Work Group that consisted of FAA?s STARS program office, Air Traffic Requirement Services, Air Traffic Operations, air traffic controllers, technicians and human factor representatives.
This group, supported by MITRE Corporation "identified over 100 STARS operations that required repair or modification".
The software design coding was to be completed in September 2001.
Head of NATCA was John Carr.
Prior to his election in September 2000, he worked as an air traffic controller at Kansas City International Airport, the Chicago Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON) and at Cleveland Hopkins Airport.
The very same airport, which was later part of a grounding maneouvre on Sep11th (see WoodyBox).
More interestingly, Carr is married to Jill Carr, another air traffic controller whose background includes stints at St. Pete-Clearwater Tower, Greensboro Tower, Dulles Tower but also TRACON, Cleveland Hopkins Tower.
Right after Sep11th, the FAA requested that reporters not ask controllers questions about their experiences, because an investigation is ongoing.
However Rick Kettell, manager of the Cleveland Center, briefly talked about the day and said that although Flight 93's transponder, a beacon to track the aircraft, was shut off after the hijacking over Ohio occurred, the signal sporadically came back. He said that indicated the flight crew was trying to keep communicating with controllers.
JMASS
Military Architecture components to build simulations
MapFactory
During 2001, The MapFactory, Inc., was specialised in satellite images and aerial photography.
Their address is listed at 5850 T.G. Lee Blvd., Suite 650 Orlando, FL 32822
Going back into their history, in October 1999, Paul Smith, MapFactory vice president of retail sales, said his company was working on making zoning maps.
Zoning Maps was also a speciality of NIMA, the intelligence service for Mapping and Zoning.
However, intense research could not provide a direct link between NIMA with MapFactory.
A further search shows, that employee Tad Reynales was at a Digital Earth Community Meeting, in Santa Barbara (1999).
Among other guests, represantatives of the NASA and the United States Geological Survey.
However reverse check of the address of MapFactory produces also another interesting result:
MapFactory shared their address with almost a dozen of other companies, among them:
Holland Sheltair Aviation Group (they also had a hangar at Arthur Dunn Airpark, Titusville, FL)
Direct Mobile USA (who had a 1998 contract with the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Division (30 minutes away)
AE Petsche Co.(high performance mil-/aerospace wire and cable.
Clients: Raytheon, Bombadier Aerospace, Fokker Elmo, BAE)
American Speakers Bureau Corporation
Power Play Lighting Inc.
I Mageneon (Building Construction & Design Consultants)
Robin Abraham (Commission on the Legal Needs of Children)
Devereux Florida Treatment Network
Broadcast Quality Inc (their website was registered by someone named Enrique Irazoqui, which is based on the identity of a spanish movie actor from 1964.
Their only client seemed to be famed marine biologist and artist, Guy Harvey.
His studio is on Cayman Islands)
Corporate Software & Technology/Stream International (later acquired by Level 3)
Here we find another link to another contractor of "Project Trailblazer":
Edward Van Macatee (CS&T) was also the managing flight operations networks for the Department of Defense for Booz-Allen & Hamilton.
Was MapFactory a front company for U.S. Intelligence?
Naval Intelligence Operations Systems
During 2001, the Pentagon also worked on undisclosed "Information Systems".
On Sep11th, almost 12 Electronics- or Information Systems Techinicians died in the "attacked" Pentagon wing, among them Gregg Harold Smallwood, Chief Information Systems Technician.
NAVSTAR
NAVSTAR GPS Satellite Constellation Simulator
NAVSTAR's function was to precisely simulate the GPS constellation with total control over satellite geometry, GPS signal content, and simulated host vehicle dynamics.
NEADS
The Northeast Air Defense Sector was activated on July 1, 1987 at Griffiss AFB, New York.
The mission of NEADS was and still is to provide the earliest tactical warning and assessment to national command authorities against manned bomber and cruise missile threats.
...As part of a wider Air Force restructuring, the sector headquarters was redesignated Headquarters, Northeast Air Defense Sector (ANG) on December 1, 1994.
NEADS stood up as an all-Air National Guard unit on Oct.1, 1996.
SiRF Technology
On July 24, 2001, Interstate Electronics Corporation, a division of L-3 Communications, announced to acquire Software Technical Systems, Inc. (STS) a subsidiary of SiRF Technology, Inc.
STS is a "military GPS Product Line".
SiRF Technology, Inc. is a world leader in the same technology used to guide everything from the space shuttle to car navigation systems to handheld devices used by backpackers.
SWARE
MD-405A Remote Host Control.
Titan Corporation's "easy-to-use, remote host control system for Signals Intelligence (SIGINT) systems. The system uses a Windows-based human machine interface (HMI) that enables functionality such as real-time maps, advanced signal processing displays, digital reporting, and database capability. The remote host control system uses a laptop computer to control SIGINT receivers and display the receiver's output"
VirtualPrototypes
According to investigative journalist Daniel Hopsicker, Mohammad Atta, was apparently in e-mail correspondence with Virtual Prototypes, which meanwhile seems to be renamed to eNGENUITY Technologies.
What was so special about Virtual Prototypes?
Among their customers are BAE SYSTEMS, Boeing, DaimlerChrysler, Johnson Controls, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Rockwell Collins, SAAB, Thales and Volkswagen.
In July, 2000, Virtual Prototypes hooked up with BARCO (=Belgian American Radio Corporation) Display Systems' Avionics Division.
One of VP's standard products is called JLOOX.
This is a software developer, which can easily and quickly add numerous, high-performance data visualizations and interactions to a wide range of applications, including:
* Network and element management systems, to allow operators to easily monitor and interact with the network
* Defense applications such as C4I, mission rehearsal and mission planning, to plan and visualize troop movements and co-ordinate multi-element forces on a battlefield.
The biography of Yves H. Boucher isn't less interesting.
Between 2000 and 2002, Boucher was Director of Nstein Technologies Inc. (e-publishing).
In December 2002, Nstein signed a joint venture agreement with SDTI and UPI (United Press International).
From 1985 to 1990, Mr. Boucher occupied increasingly responsible positions within the Arthur Andersen Company in the Montreal office
From 1985 to 1990, Boucher worked for Arthur Andersen Company in the Montreal office
What was so important at VP for Atta?
Voice Switching and Control System (VSCS)
VSCS was in use at New York Center since November 1996.
VSCS is installed in Air Route Traffic Control Centers (ARTCC).
(see Air Traffic Control Center Ronkonkoma- Red Herring or Cover-up?)
It's a AWANET-100 system supplied by AWA Plessey.
In 1995, Plessey SA sold off some of its division ECAM, which was sold off with the Tellumat division. ECAM was subsequently renamed Tellumat Mining.
Plessey Broadband Wireless (BBW) is now a division of Stratex Networks, Inc.
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