Some telling quotes from latest Newsweek on the Haditha situation....

"Actually, it's quite fun to fight them (the Iraqis). You know, it's a hell of a hoot.... I like brawling. You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

-General James Mattis addressing his troops

"People were taking steroids, Valium, hooked on painkillers, drinking. They'd go on raids and patrols totally stoned. We're killing the wrong people all the time, and mostly by accident. One guy in my squadron ran over a family with his tank."

Clif Hicks, former tank squadron soldier

Hicks also goes on to say, "There's a lot of guys who steal from the Iraqis. Money, family heirlooms, and then they brag about it. Guys would crap into MRE bags and throw them to old men begging for food."

"There were problems in Kilo Company (those responsible for the killings in Haditha) with drugs, alcohol, hazing, you name it. I think it's more than possible that these guys were totally tweaked out on speed or something when they shot those civilians in Haditha."

-wife of a staff sergeant, who declined to be indentified

And, quite possibly, the most unbelievable thing I read from the article, comes from Clif Hicks again. He states that infantry soldiers sometimes stick their legs out of the Humvee under sniper fire, hoping to get a nonlethal wound.

Does any of this sound productive to liberating Iraqis and securing peace?

Makes me want to puke.

were it not for the date and mention of nationality, I'dve sworn we were talkin about Vietnam

This is why I don't support the troops. As a matter of fact, I hate the troops. Fuck the troops.

Cmon now they're not ALL bad. I served with some real stand up guys on 1990, and There are some honest ppl in there.

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Originally Posted by AuGmENTor

Cmon now they're not ALL bad. I served with some real stand up guys on 1990, and There are some honest ppl in there.

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I see your point. But anybody who flys a jet and drops bombs or fire tank rounds, and so forth , KNOWING that civilians would get killed and think nothing of it are cold blooded killers in my book.

And in my mind anyone who runs around waving a flag and a "support our troops" banner is guilty too because they support this. Just like supporting the war.

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Originally Posted by PhilosophyGenius

And in my mind anyone who runs around waving a flag and a "support our troops" banner is guilty too because they support this. Just like supporting the war.

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I do agree with you about that. I don't support what they are over there for, and there times that they do not do the right thing. It is their comander in chief that I hold accountable for the fact that they are over there. But having served in a combat theatre, and having read about others, I know that it is a wierd set of events that lead up to what those men face. Drugs are defenitely* a part of it, but it's more. I guess you could say it's blood lust. I am not defending it, merely acknowleging that it exists. If you hang around the barbershop, you WILL get a haircut eventually.

Further, you don't know that they "think nothing" of their actions. That is an assumption on your part. I carry hideous baggage from my time there, and what makes it worse is now that I know it was to satisfy the agenda of a wanna be dictator. I killed four civilians, men who were only trying to feed their families under the assumtion that they were the enemy, based on orders from my govt, who then tried to lock me up. It was dark and I had no idea who they were. But we had lost alot of men to night fighting, and I couldn't afford to risk making a mistake. By your logic, I thought nothing of this, when the reality is rarely a day goes by (fifteen years later) that I don't think of it.

Just look at the footage of fighter pilots returning from a mission. To them its just another day on the job when they've just killed a bunch of people. That's what I'm talking about. Soldier busting into homes and treating Iraqis like dogs, and treating them like dogs on the street. It's well documented. But yeah a lot of them are good guys, but overall my concience won't let me support them.

You were in Iraq Augmentor?

Marine Linked To Civilian Deaths Was A Quiet Honor Student, Friends Say

By LISA CHEDEKEL, DAVE ALTIMARI And MATTHEW KAUFFMAN, Courant Staff Writers

Fox 61 WTIC-TV Connecticut

June 3, 2006

Many of Frank Wuterich's high school friends from Meriden haven't seen him since graduation, when the trumpet player, drama club president and honor student told them he had joined the Marines and had hopes of playing in the Marine Corps band.

Now, the same friends grapple with news that Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, 26, a squad leader with the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, could be a focus of the U.S. military's investigation into the killing of Iraqi civilians in Haditha.

"I never saw anything violent out of Frank. He was a nice-looking kid who was pretty quiet and never caused any trouble," said Carol Vincent of Meriden, the mother of one of Wuterich's friends at Orville H. Platt High School, from which he graduated in 1998.

"It's terrible to hear this stuff," said Joseph Corriveau, a longtime neighbor of the Wuterich family, who live on the west side of Meriden. "I find it hard to believe myself. A man has certain character traits, and this isn't Frankie. ... Of course if he was under orders, then he wouldn't have a choice for what happened. We have to wait and see what comes out in the inquiry."

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Originally Posted by PhilosophyGenius

Just look at the footage of fighter pilots returning from a mission. To them its just another day on the job when they've just killed a bunch of people. That's what I'm talking about. Soldier busting into homes and treating Iraqis like dogs, and treating them like dogs on the street. It's well documented. But yeah a lot of them are good guys, but overall my concience won't let me support them.

You were in Iraq Augmentor?

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Yeah during the first campaign, 90-91. Transportation unit, (7th bat, 850th trans) which made it one of the WORST jobs you could ever hope to do there. In my opinion worse than infantry cause you were ALWAYS under fire, and you never knew where it was from. At the time I really thought we were there keeping the world safe for democracy, now I wish I had scagged a few ppl. But, like I say, I saw alot of guys I knew were good ppl do some terrible shit, and not seem to care. The few I stayed in touch with are in bad shape now. Between du (depleted uranium) and mental issues. Thank god I got none of that. Depending on who you ask, cause some ppl think my train jumped the tracks years ago!

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Originally Posted by AuGmENTor

Yeah during the first campaign, 90-91. Transportation unit, (7th bat, 850th trans) which made it one of the WORST jobs you could ever hope to do there. In my opinion worse than infantry cause you were ALWAYS under fire, and you never knew where it was from. At the time I really thought we were there keeping the world safe for democracy, now I wish I had scagged a few ppl. But, like I say, I saw alot of guys I knew were good ppl do some terrible shit, and not seem to care. The few I stayed in touch with are in bad shape now. Between du (depleted uranium) and mental issues. Thank god I got none of that. Depending on who you ask, cause some ppl think my train jumped the tracks years ago!

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Thats intersting. Ya know on truthout.org or moveon.org they have some video of a former marine talking about that, how good guys do horrible stuff in a war zone, I'm pretty sure that video was posted on this site or something.

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Originally Posted by PhilosophyGenius

Thats intersting. Ya know on truthout.org or moveon.org they have some video of a former marine talking about that, how good guys do horrible stuff in a war zone, I'm pretty sure that video was posted on this site or something.

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Yeah I don't dwell on it to much though. I've "movedon.org" myself. I was just a grunt drivin a truck (albeit a very young one) It just sux to know that it was all part of this big plan that I knew NOTHING about until 11/05. I never heard anything of a conspiracy or a truth movement or ANY of this shit. Guys like Gold and you just strip my gears, cause you like BREATHE the news... It's allI can do to remember where the hell I parked. I feel so useless in all of this. Anyway I think the point was to convince you not ALL those guys are bad/ there for the wrong reason. I hear stories of how your govt targets groups of kids that have no chance at life and get them to join just to have a chance... I was with alot of guys like that. Minorities that didn't want to sling rocks and go to jail, so instead they listened to the recruiter and went to the meat- grinder. Tragic, but all part of the big picture. And until your THERE, with shit blowin up all over, dark, scared, and just wantin to be home.... You have know idea what you'd do. Especially after MONTHS of it.

Thanks for the great insight Augmentor. You should post more of your experiences on some of the threads to give us a 'soldiers view', or even share some stories.

Holla at yo boy.