View Full Version : What's The Difference Between Theory And Fact?

12-08-2005, 09:32 PM
All of us have our theories as to what happened on 9/11. Personally, I think some of the "hijackers" may have actually existed. I think they might have been part of a "drug running operation". I think they were used as "patsies", and they may well have not even known of the plan for 9/11.

I think it's possible that those planes were somehow controlled by someone on the ground.

I think the wargames were used to "confuse" the FAA and military's response, and I think that either Donald Rumsfeld, or Dick Cheney ordered a "stand-down", or something that would mean "non-participation" in the response of those hijackings.

I think it's possible the buildings were brought down by explosives. I think it was done for "effect", and to cover up their involvement.

I think Flight 93 was shot down, and they're covering it up because it might be considered a "questionable" action, and the "hero" propaganda worked better for them.

All of that is "Theory". It's "Theory" BASED on facts. All of it may be wrong. Some of it might be right. We'll NEVER know until there's a THOROUGH investigation. An investigation done by individuals who serve NO ONE, that might be considered a "suspect".

I'm writing this because people LOVE to bash our "theories". The "Theories" are what they think is "crazy". The FACTS are what make us credible.

12-08-2005, 09:39 PM
Here is an example of the difference...

"Hey, the towers, and WTC7 were blown up by our Government."

That's a theory...

"Hey, did you know that fire has never brought down a steel framed structure, and that the towers came down at "free-fall" speed?"

Those are facts...

12-08-2005, 09:42 PM
Here's another example...

"Hey, I think the Government flew those planes on 9/11 by remote control."

That's a theory...

"Hey, did you know there were wargames taking place on 9/11 that were using "Live-Fly" Drills? Also, a lot of pilots have said some of those manuevers were next to impossible."

Those are facts...

12-08-2005, 09:45 PM
Here's a good one...

"Hey, I think a missile hit the Pentagon."

That's a theory...

"Hey, did you know the FBI confiscated videos from a neighboring gas station and hotel within 5 minutes of the Pentagon crash on 9/11? The only video they've released doesn't clearly show us what hit it."

Those are facts...

12-08-2005, 10:14 PM
Remember when Professor Jones said he had a hypothesis, and not a proven theory... VERY smart of him to say...

12-08-2005, 10:30 PM
He also said the official story was a hypothesis and not a proven theory.

12-08-2005, 10:30 PM
He also said the official story was a hypothesis and not a proven theory.


12-08-2005, 10:31 PM
I'm sure DRG helped him out on that one...

12-08-2005, 10:45 PM
DRG is a good man.

12-09-2005, 03:02 AM
here's one kinda

the fires weakened the support columns causing a collapse that then once started became a global total collapse

-that is a theory

molten metal was found at the bottom of the pile months afterward
jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel
numerous eyewitnesses report seeing flashes in the lower part of the towers and hearing, feeling, seeing explosions going off before the collapses...the people escaping and FDNY

-these are facts

12-09-2005, 03:53 AM
this is a little bit off topic but

have you noticed the movement has been focusing quite a bit on the controlled demilotion aspect, i mean it seems like it is being pushed heavily...with DRG, Jones?

do you think people are more susceptable to visual and auditory stimulation, ala showing the towers being hit over and over coupled by pictures of osama and the evil stare of atta vs. the squibs, freefall collapsing, weird noises, eyewitness testimonies?

-that is a fact

people have a hard time reading the 9-11 commission reports, timelines and the incredible inconsistencies between them; Bush and Cheney asking Daschle to limit the invesitgations; stonewalling, underfunding, obstructing the commission and see that there is a link that might involve more than 19 hijackers.

- that is a theory

originally i intended the first to be the theory, but the more i thought about it i realize people are more susceptable to the visual and auditory stimulations...the whole sensory factor.

reading and thinking is not instinctual...

of course that is if you believe we are animals, which means you have to believe we are evolved and not just created.

but im gettin off topic and it's late


12-10-2005, 06:45 AM
What we have here are some serious flaws in a government-sponsored conspiracy theory. The flaws are so big that many have to question the government for the flaws in their conspiracy theory and the cover-up. So much so, that the agonizing realizations that something may be really really really wrong with the very government that Walt Disney made us believe was the white prince on the horse. All of a sudden history falls into place and we remember; governments have always ended up evil and killed their own in evil plans to enrich themselves. It is not "unusual" for governments to become evil, it is in fact, and as sure as the sun will come up in the east.

01-14-2006, 04:50 AM
I posted this on blogger in regards to why Bush spying on us before 9/11 is important. Thought I'd share.

"I say use it as a tool. Why would Bush need to spy on us before 9/11? Go ahead, ask someone that. If there were "terrorists" involved, albeit patsy "terrorists", they could have coorindated the events of 9/11 around these supposed "terrorists"... by listening in to their phone conversations. Or... if you don't want to go down that route, make the point that Bush was checking to see if anyone was on to their little scheme. Either way, this is an incredibly important piece of information.

Make a deal with Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Israel, or Britain to supply some people to board a few airplanes. Find some people who have links to drug trafficking, someone already familiar with "flying". People who have received "Flight Training". People who are expendable. You only need a few. Get them to board those airplanes thinking they're taking part in a "drug scheme" or something to that affect. Since we've been listening in on phone calls, we can monitor dates, times, flights, and so on. Get a few "agents" on those planes. People like the Mossad agent that was supposedly on one of them. Someone to kill the pilots, and anyone who oppose them. Rewire the autopilot to take commands from the ground, and parachute out of those planes before they hit. During the event, you run wargames that confuse the response. Maybe, if you're already in the middle of "Live Fly" hijacking drills, you're in a position to take control of these planes. Also, you're waiting for an order to intercept that never comes because Donald Rumsfeld didn't give it. Wire the buildings with explosives to destroy any evidence of who might have been flying those planes. Remove any evidence before it can be inspected. After everything is said and done, blame the events on the individuals, or "patsies" you managed to get on the plane. Tell only partial truths about flight training, etc... create the illusion of "Terrorism", and do everything within your power to cover it up.

How's that for a "theory"?"

01-14-2006, 06:48 AM
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames/allcomments?pid=47894&rpg=4 (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames/allcomments?pid=47894&rpg=4)

http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2006/01/63242.html (http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2006/01/63242.html)
January 13, 2006 03:51AM EST [general.addtranslation] (https://publish.nyc.indymedia.org/nyc/servlet/OpenMir?do=opensession&sessiontype=translation&to_content=63242) Download Article (PDF) (https://publish.nyc.indymedia.org/nyc/servlet/OpenMir?do=getpdf&id=63242&forIE=.pdf) [ insert language bar ] Was 47 story high, WTC 7's collapse, not hit by any airliner, an act of Arson and Government terrorism?

Someone did die in this collapse, from the previous article:Update: People Died in WTC 7: This Makes Silverstein and the FDNY Guilty of AT LEAST Manslaughter

'Weaver: "We lost Craig Miller, an employee that we still can't find. His body has never been recovered. People here are still grief stricken." (first quarter, 2002)

Steve Carey - SS special agent in charge or recreating task force.

"When 7 World Trade Center came down on Sept. 11, an agent on loan from Washington, special officer Craig Miller, perished, and the entire Secret Service office was buried in that building. Yet, despite the devastation, the New York Electronic Crime Task Force has stepped up its operations in credit card fraud and for Osama Bin Laden's money"

http://www.ectaskforce.org/City_Leads_Way.pdf (http://www.ectaskforce.org/City_Leads_Way.pdf) [link expired]

"One employee, Master Special Officer Craig Miller, died during the rescue efforts. Miller was temporarily assigned to New York in preparation for the United Nations General Assembly." http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/press/pub1202.pdf (http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/press/pub1202.pdf)

"in selfless dedication to others, Master Special Officer Craig Miller was lost in the collapse of the World Trade Center."

http://www.house.gov/istook/rel-ss-customs.htm (http://www.house.gov/istook/rel-ss-customs.htm).

Also, this needs to be investigated because if the reportedly small fires were burning on higher floors, they couldn't have ignited in the underground.

And how could James Z. have gotten out if it exploded from below?
The article said he got out as the building started to collapse?

If this building indeed was demolished (controlled demolition) it had to be rigged long before, which then entirely leads to suspect the other towers were rigged also.
Case of arson for profit (removal of asbestos too expensive, plus insrance) and government terrorism to make American fear fundamental Muslims in AlQueda which is really
ElCIAda,... This Atta identified on Sun Cruze was smoking, gambling, drinking, etc.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/10/326565.shtml (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/10/326565.shtml)

There is a lot of heroin traffic that the CIA profits from,and money laundering like gambling. uses the monies to set up front companies inoder to carry out this wishes of the
world's elite. One of which is to use Israel to get to the drug fields of Afghanistan and the oil fields of Iran.
See; http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/10/326565.shtml (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/10/326565.shtml)

Dave Mann
01-14-2006, 11:56 AM
Good points - so many people are avoiding a confrontation with the FACTS on the pretext that it's all THEORY, ie, opinion.
I would disagree with the remark about professor Jones AGNOSTICISM being a good thing - he may have written a wonderful paper - which I admit I haven't read - and also I'm thrilled to have him aboard. But that said - TAKE ONE LOOK AT THE COLLAPSE OF BUILDING SEVEN, THEN LISTEN TO LARRY SILVERSTEIN SAY IT WAS PULLED - that's two facts that far outweigh the good professors figuring. I'm just saying his performance on TV was a little pathetic - constantly qualifying everything with "this is only a theory" - sounds more like equivocation than rational scepticism, under the circumstances. Of course, he tried to get them to role the video - that WAS SMART.

01-18-2006, 12:10 AM
The word "theory" is a label intended to qualify information.

Here is an example of the difference...

"Hey, the towers, and WTC7 were blown up by our Government."

That's a theory...

"Hey, did you know that fire has never brought down a steel framed structure, and that the towers came down at "free-fall" speed?"

Those are facts...

Label theory can control in the convoluted business of facts and theory.

I could say, "The towers were blown up and only a secret government could have done it."

Some would try to label it a theory but the statement reasonably qualifies as dominant until another way to reduce the structure that stood to a pile of steel on top a pile of sand and gravel in 10 seconds, is produced. Then an alternative to the security of official government channels to both get things done, and keep them hidden must be produced to refute what at first sounded like a theory and has now become a potential fact because it cannot be reasonably refuted in its general comprehensiveness to the event.

Before the above can logically be related to the actual event of the buildings coming down, the actual structure of the buildings must be ascertained. I am certain there are many inconsistencies on that matter.