View Full Version : Al. Dems go down the pimping Jesus route

12-01-2005, 02:21 PM
Democrats want literacy class on Bible
Virginia group's book touted as new elective's basis
The Hunstville Times (http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/index.ssf?/base/news/1133432353291420.xml&coll=1)

MONTGOMERY - Democratic lawmakers are pressing for a uniform Bible literacy class in Alabama's public schools.

At a news conference today, the legislators plan to announce they will push in the Legislature early next year a bill that would allow local school boards to offer "Bible literacy" classes as elective high school courses.

House Majority Leader Ken Guin, D-Carbon Hill, and Speaker of the House Seth Hammett, D-Andalusia, were expected to make the announcement.

Alabama schools may teach a similar course now.

Opponents say the Democrats' bill sanctions one religion; Republicans say Democrats are stealing their ideas.

The course will center on "The Bible and Its Influence," a book published by the Bible Literacy Project, a Virginia group that promotes knowledge of the Bible.

"It's very needed and there's a loss of Bible literacy," said Sheila Weber, spokeswoman for the Bible Literacy Project. "From our perspective, this is an educational gap in public education."

Weber said students need to be familiar with the Bible to understand American and British literature, and arts and music.

But the books will also be useful in a religious context, she said. "We have written the textbook so it preserves the ability of the churches and parents to teach their view of the Bible."

The book, published in September, is not used by any school system now.

Weber said the book was written so schools would not worry about the course being unconstitutional. And the Bible Literacy Project offers online training for teachers of the course.

"It is a straight-forward teaching of the Bible at a high school level," she said.

Schools may teach the Bible in a historical context, courts have ruled, but may not teach it as a faith.

Randy Brinson of Montgomery helped coordinate bringing the book to Alabama.

In schools today, Brinson said, "There's no way to study the Bible for its literary content and how it influenced our art, our literature, our history."

But the state already allows schools to teach a similar class, said Michael Sibley, spokesman for the state Department of Education.

Sally Howell, assistant executive director of the Alabama Association of School Boards in Montgomery, said school boards already have the authority to offer Bible literacy classes.

But such classes may present new problems, some say.

"Anytime you specify the study of a specific religion, it just opens up the likelihood of abuse that it will turn into a devotional text rather than an academic text," said Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State in Washington.

"I just don't like the idea of taking one religion and singling it out for special treatment, even as an elective course, and, in addition, this book has problems, not as many as some, but it has problems nevertheless," he said.

Rep. Mike Hubbard, R-Auburn, the minority leader in the House, said the bill, along with a bill proposed by Rep. Steve Hurst, D-Munford, to put "In God We Trust" on Alabama license plates, is just politics.

"I don't think there's any doubt that the Democrats are going to try to be moving to the right as far as they can and shake the liberal label they have," said Hubbard, a board member of Redeem the Vote. "As we head into the election year, I think you'll see the Democrats doing anything they can to move toward the right."

Guin declined to speak about the bill before today's news conference.

The Alabama Education Association does not oppose the bill.

"As an elective subject, I don't see a problem with it," said Paul Hubbert, head of the AEA. "It does allow Bible back into public schools in a way that has been approved by the courts."

The four major candidates for governor, Republicans Gov. Bob Riley and Roy Moore, and Democrats Lucy Baxley and Don Siegelman, all said they support the intent of the bill, either by offering more "spiritual growth" or teaching more about the Bible, though none had seen the bill.

12-01-2005, 02:30 PM
"There's no way to study the Bible for its literary content and how it influenced our art, our literature, our history."

I beg to differ. You listen to a piece of music, say an old Paul Robeson spiritual. If you are really all that interested in the religious context of the song, you then go to this thing called a library (if you're not afraid of the Feds checking your records that is), and get out a book - say a biog of Robeson, or a book on 'Negro Spirituals: Their History and Meaning' and read about it. Call it a radical solution if you like, maybe I'm crazy. But that's how I learned about the things that interested me over the years.

And actually, I'd have no problem if this course was a History of the Bible: It's meaning(s), interpretation, abuse and influence. But I sincerely doubt that is what will be taught, cos that would have to teach you all the nasty things that have been done in the name of the Bible - the Inqusition, Slavery, the Crusades, Witch Burnings, the supression of scientific thought to name a few.

12-01-2005, 03:32 PM
Slavery was done in the name of the bible? Strange, I've always heard it was because of the almighty god of cheap labor that inspired that. I think it's possible that they'll teach the bible as a book instead of a faith guildline. I really don't see them getting away with teaching it as faith, even in alabama. There is a historical and literature-al value to the bible. There are biblical references in almost everything across the spectrum. Scholars study to Torah and Koran in order to cross reference events in the bible and in history (In both books, Jesus is prominent and born immacualately, btw). They don't get influenced by the religon of them.

12-01-2005, 03:37 PM
"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." Rev. R. Furman, D.D., a Baptist pastor from South Carolina.

The Christian church's main justification of the concept of slavery was based on the "curse of Ham" which appears in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) in Genesis 9:25-27. "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, 'Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. Christians at the time believed that Canaan had settled in Africa and that his descendents had become black.

Although slavery was widespread in Palestine during Jesus' ministry, the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) does not record his opinion of it. Slavery was casually mentioned without criticism in the various books of the Bible. It was accepted as a natural part of life by almost all Christians until the 19th century CE.

Anabaptists started to criticize slavery in the late 17th century. They were joined by Quakers and Mennonites. It was only when John Wesley (1703-1791), founder of the Methodist movement, became concerned about slavery that the small protest became a mass movement for the abolition of slavery.

Slavery is still advocated in North America by some Reconstructionist Christians and a few racist fringe groups within the Christian Identity movement.

Source (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_slav.htm) (Religious Tolerance)

12-01-2005, 03:41 PM
The confederate may have used historical slavery as an exuse, but thats not why slavery was started or continued or fought over. The southern businesses and plantations heavily depended on slavery, and feared collapse if it was abolished. It wasn't done because they felt God told them to or something.

12-01-2005, 03:49 PM
Of course it was an excuse. That's all religion is. You think the Crusades were fought over religion? They were fought over trade routes and land. But Christianity and 'saving the Holy Land' was the excuse. Hell, Church doctrine was rewritten in order to encourage people to go and fight in the crusades (Fight for the Church and all your sins, no matter how horrendous, shall be absolved).

The Inquistion was about actual religious belief? It was about countering threats to Church hegemony.

And so on. Wherever God is invoked, there is usually an ulterior motive using religion as the justification.

911=inside job
12-01-2005, 03:54 PM
partridge rules..

i like this one from jetsaloser..(In both books, Jesus is prominent and born immacualately, btw)

HAHAHAH!!!! so it must be true!!! HAHAHHA!!!! youre a joke.

12-01-2005, 03:57 PM
That has nothing to do with the subject, and shut the fuck up, inny, unless you have something useful to say (which you never do). Yeah, religon is used as an ulturior motive plenty of times. Does that make religon bad? No. It makes those using it to their advantage bad.

12-01-2005, 04:45 PM
That has nothing to do with the subject,

What has nothing to do with the subject?

12-01-2005, 04:51 PM
Well, the stuff about the Inqusition was kinda, but I was more responding to the asshole. You are actually discussing, so its all cool.