Jim Norton And I Are Having Words...

[Gold9472]

Jim Norton And I Are Having Words...

This morning, I was driving into work, listening to the Opie & Anthony Show, and they started talking poorly about Dylan Avery, and his movie, "Loose Change". I'm not going to defend Dylan or his movie, but the fact that he was writing off the entire 9/11 Truth Movement because of his views regarding that movie pissed me off. I decided to write the show. Jim was the only one who's responded to me.

Opie, Anthony, Norton, and others,

You may or may not remember me, but I was the first 9/11 Truther you had on your show. In November 2004, you had me on.

You can listen to it here:
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/gold9472oanda1.mp3

And listen to the follow up the next day here:
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/nortonjon911.mp3

I heard your show this morning where you attacked Dylan Avery. If you guys think you obviously know everything there is to know about 9/11, and people like me are crazy nutjobs, than I'm sure you won't have a problem having me on again.

Unless of course you prefer picking on college students.

Let me know. I'd be MORE than happy to tear you a few new assholes.

Jon Gold

Jim Norton's response...

Nothing to do with him being a college student. HE put himself out there. I find him to be so agenda-obsessed he refuses to acknowldge ANY data that can affect his theory. Anthony made a BRILLIANT point on why the towers being 'wired' was crazy (what if one plane didnt make it? then there is a standing tower full of fucking wired bombs). So much crap that was not thought out. This kid is really just trying to marry himself to the tragedy for attention. He may not even know it, but I find him to be incredibly full of shit. jim

My response...

But Jim, put the "Controlled Demolition", and the idea that a "Missile Hit The Pentagon" aside, and then what do you have? A whole SHITLOAD more. Stuff that is VERIFIABLE. Stuff that is INCRIMINATING. Christ, Sibel Edmonds, the MOST GAGGED PERSON IN AMERICAN HISTORY has said that once this issue (9/11) gets to be investigated, you're going to be seeing certain American people standing trial, and being prosecuted criminally. That's just ONE piece that shows our Government was complicit. This isn't a fucking game Jim. Put the theory aside, and look at the facts. I know you're a diehard "Republican", but this IS NOT a "Bi-Partisan" issue. It's an AMERICAN issue. The fucking family members who fought for the creation of the commission said it was a "Hollow Failure". Bob McIlvaine, who lost his son Bobby on 9/11, and attended EVERY commission hearing is CONVINCED 9/11 was orchestrated by our Government. Start l ooking at the facts, and stop focusing on the theories.

Again, this isn't a fucking game. I am NOT a "Conspiracy Nutjob", and this country is in SERIOUS trouble.

Jon

His response...

hardcore republican? you need to listen a little better, i'm afraid. and EVERY single theory they have i have heard explained. every one. you forgot to mention the planes landing in ohio and somewhere else. what about that one?

My response...

Whatever the hell you are, you're been "supportive" of the war in the past, and I listen to you guys every morning now that you're back on "Free FM".

And what did I say? I said to STOP looking at the theories, and to start looking at the facts.

Why did you completely ignore what I said about Sibel?

STOP LOOKING AT THE THEORIES, AND START LOOKING AT THE FACTS.

Start at www.cooperativeresearch.org

Jon

His response...

yes, i have been supportive of the war in the past. again, every fact i've heard raised i've heard explained. name me one or two facts you consider very convincing. and you cant blow off the missle nonsense or the controlled explosion, those are they biggest ones he has

My response...

Jim... I'm NOT talking about "Loose Change". Get your mind off Loose Change.

Ok... here are a few facts for you to digest.

Sibel Edmonds, the most gagged person/whistleblower in history said, the following quotes

"The American public have not heard who is the real culprit behind 9/11"

"once this issue gets to be...investigated, you will be seeing certain [American] people that we know from this country standing trial; and they will be prosecuted criminally"

"There is direct evidence involving no more than ten American names that I recognized"

Also, go ask Porter Goss, Bob Graham, and John Kyl why they were having breakfast on the morning of 9/11 with Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad of the Pakistani ISI, a man alleged to have ordered $100,000 wire transferred to Mohammad Atta.

Also, answer me this simple question Jim...

How did the Pentagon, which sits in the MOST defended airspace in the world, and is itself, one of the MOST defended buildings in the world, manage to get hit by Flight 77 34 minutes AFTER the SECOND tower was hit? Cause you know, AFTER the SECOND tower was hit, everyone in the world knew we were "under attack", and yet, no planes were scrambled until AFTER the Pentagon was hit according to General Myers.

The second part to that question. why did the 9/11 Commission completely omit Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta's testimony from their final report? You remember his testimony don't you? The testimony that said he and Dick Cheney watched Flight 77 for at least 50 miles until it hit the Pentagon.

How can that be? The Pentagon was hit at 9:37, and the 9/11 Report says that Dick Cheney didn't arrive at the PEOC until 9:58.

Oh, that's right. Norman Mineta said he arrived at the PEOC by 9:20, and Dick Cheney was already there.

NO WONDER the 9/11 Report omitted his testimony.

I bet you've never even heard of this before.

Jon

His response..

i never did hear the cheney thing, its a question that should be answered. the rest of it was vague accusations. no facts, just A HA! followed by nothing

My response...

Jim, there are a lot of questions that should be answered. I wrote something about it yesterday.

http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10961

Jon

Still waiting for the response to the last one... this will hopefully be an ongoing conversation.

[AuGmENTor]

what if one plane didnt make it? then there is a standing tower full of fucking wired bombs *just to note* That didn't stop them from dropping blgd 7 even thought it was hit by NOTHING, and was designed specifically to withstand attack due to the sensitive nature of cia hq being there. Sidebar: not to be annoying, but what about "loose change " didn't you like?

[Cloak & Swagger]

Hopefully, they'll put in the time to research it, even if they aren't getting paid to do so.
What was it that former senator Max Cleland said when he resigned from the 9/11 commission?

[Gold9472]

Hopefully, they'll put in the time to research it, even if they aren't getting paid to do so.
What was it that former senator Max Cleland said when he resigned from the 9/11 commission?

Cleland attacked his own commission after the other members cut a deal to accept highly limited access to CIA reports to the White House that may indicate advance knowledge of the attacks on the part of the Bush administration. "This is a scam," Cleland said. "It's disgusting. America is being cheated."

"As each day goes by," Cleland said, "we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before September 11 than it has ever admitted.... Let's chase this rabbit into the ground. They had a plan to go to war and when 9/11 happened that's what they did; they went to war."

[Cloak & Swagger]

Cleland attacked his own commission after the other members cut a deal to accept highly limited access to CIA reports to the White House that may indicate advance knowledge of the attacks on the part of the Bush administration. "This is a scam," Cleland said. "It's disgusting. America is being cheated."

"As each day goes by," Cleland said, "we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before September 11 than it has ever admitted.... Let's chase this rabbit into the ground. They had a plan to go to war and when 9/11 happened that's what they did; they went to war."
Very compelling stuff.
Where's the source of him saying this?

[Gold9472]

Very compelling stuff.
Where's the source of him saying this?

I first saw it here...

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040525104145424

But it's available all over the web.

[Gold9472]

November 12, 2003: 9/11 Commission and White House Agree to Terms of Access

Senators of both parties have been accusing the White House of stonewalling the 9/11 Commission by blocking its demands for documents despite threats of a subpoena. [Associated Press, 10/27/2003] On this day, the White House and the 9/11 Commission strike a deal. The main issue is access to the presidential daily briefings given to President Bush. Under the deal, only some of the ten commissioners will be allowed to examine classified intelligence documents, and their notes will be subject to White House review. Some 9/11 victims’ relatives complain that the agreement gives the White House too much power. The Family Steering Committee complains, “All ten commissioners should have full, unfettered, and unrestricted access to all evidence.” It urges the public release of “the full, official, and final written agreement.” [Associated Press, 11/13/2003] Commissioner Max Cleland is unsatisfied with the deal and resigns a short time later (see December 9, 2003).

December 9, 2003: Bob Kerry Replaces Max Cleland on 9/11 Commission

Bob Kerrey, the former Nebraska senator who also served as the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, is appointed to the 9/11 Commission, replacing Max Cleland, who leaves the commission to accept a position on the board of the Export-Import Bank. [Washington Post, 12/10/2003] Just before resigning, Cleland called the Bush administration’s attempts to stonewall and “slow walk” the commission a “national scandal.” He criticized the commission for cutting a deal with the White House that compromised their access to information, and said, “I’m not going to be part of looking at information only partially. I’m not going to be part of just coming to quick conclusions. I’m not going to be part of political pressure to do this or not do that. I’m not going to be part of that. This is serious.” [Salon, 11/21/2003]

[Gold9472]

"As each day goes by, we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before Sept. 11 than it has ever admitted," Cleland told the New York Times (10/26/03).

"Let's chase this rabbit into the ground here," Cleland said in an interview (Salon, Nov. 2003). "They had a plan to go to war, and when 9/11 happened that's what they did. They went to war." He called this "a national scandal."

[aceace]

what if one plane didnt make it? then there is a standing tower full of fucking wired bombs *just to note* That didn't stop them from dropping blgd 7 even thought it was hit by NOTHING, and was designed specifically to withstand attack due to the sensitive nature of cia hq being there. Sidebar: not to be annoying, but what about "loose change " didn't you like?The bldgs 1 & 2 were wired the weekend before. This video.

http://911source.org/node/652/play
shot from across the Hudson shows the helicopters flying into and out of the smoke and you can hear the bombs going off just before each collapse. Bldg 2 was dropped first because the fire was going out. The Bldgs were obviously remote detonated from the aircraft/chopper. If anyone still believes the Govt version of events after watching this video, they are likely suffering from cognative dissonance.

[Gold9472]

I think the "Scam" quote was in the New York Times article.

[Cloak & Swagger]

I think the "Scam" quote was in the New York Times article.
I found a tidbit while googling that came up via FOX, of all places, that stated he'd said it on Hardball with Chris Matthews, or Chris Matthews covered it, I'm not sure. The article won't come up when I click the link, it just directs me into FOX's search listing of random things relative to Max Cleland, but nothing about the article.
Weird.

[Gold9472]

Wherever it's from, I WISH I had the audio/video of it.

[Cloak & Swagger]

Wherever it's from, I WISH I had the audio/video of it.
I know what you mean.
I want the video of this: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0501/18/pzn.01.html
In it, there's they guy talking about having regretted letting Atta through the gates to board the plane because he felt something tell him they were terrorists, what was strange though, was the difference between what he saw in real life, and what he later saw on the video...

From the transcript:

Once he and other employees realized what was happening, they called the FBI. And within hours, Touhey found himself viewing this videotape of the two Arab men he had ticketed pass going through security. He told the FBI who they were. He also told them that he observed something curious on the tape.

TOUHEY: And they said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Well, these guys had on -- they were very business looking. They had on ties and jackets." And I said, "If you look at these guys, they both have like open collar, they have like dress shirts with an open collar." I said, "But that's them."

[Cloak & Swagger]

apprently, the look on Touhey's face when saying this was pretty strained, like he didn't know what going on, or like he knew what was going on, and was scared of what might happen to him for saying this.

[PhilosophyGenius]

I'm suprised you still listen to O & A after that appearance.

[Tonya]

sounds like we could have used Cleland on the commission. I understand why he wouldn't want to play a part in that considering how discusted he was with how they were running things,but he could've played watch dog and spilled all the wrongs he discovered. i don't know, that is just the first thought that came to mind after hearing about him and his resigning. i had no knowledge of him before. i am glad that he said what he said though instead of simply resigning and not speaking his mind. does anyone know if he is still suspicious of the "official story"?

[Uber Commandante]

what if one plane didnt make it? then there is a standing tower full of fucking wired bombs *just to note* That didn't stop them from dropping blgd 7 even thought it was hit by NOTHING, and was designed specifically to withstand attack due to the sensitive nature of cia hq being there. Sidebar: not to be annoying, but what about "loose change " didn't you like?

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I read about the 'wired' buildings. They DID drop a building even though no plane hit it. The key is, if the MSM NEVER EVER EVER EVER reports on it, then noone knowls about bldg 7. If you ask pretty much anyone how many buildings fell on 9/11 they will tell you 2. Gold, I but if you ask Norton how many, he will say 2. If he says 3, then I would like to hear his explanation for how it fell with no plane hitting it.

[Gold9472]

He hasn't responded to my Mineta email yet... if he will at all.

[boast]

He hasn't responded to my Mineta email yet... if he will at all.

yep...that's usually what happens. the Mineta testimony is check and mate in most debates.

[Gold9472]

There's no rebuttal to it. None whatsoever. You can't argue it. You can't "debate" it. It's one of the most incriminating pieces of information we as a movement have that almost 100% proves complicity. At the very least, it proves there is a coverup, and that they're deliberately trying to protect Cheney specifically.

[AuGmENTor]

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I read about the 'wired' buildings. They DID drop a building even though no plane hit it. The key is, if the MSM NEVER EVER EVER EVER reports on it, then noone knowls about bldg 7. If you ask pretty much anyone how many buildings fell on 9/11 they will tell you 2. Gold, I but if you ask Norton how many, he will say 2. If he says 3, then I would like to hear his explanation for how it fell with no plane hitting it.
Their whole argument is that blg 7 sustained debris damage and caught fire, a fire that burned so hot it also melted the structural steel as it did towers 1&2. Even though no steel structured building has ever collapsed as a result of fire. It boggles my mind that ANYONE could look at this stuff and not see right through the official story.

[Gold9472]

bump.. norton responded to mineta.

[AuGmENTor]

Hey man, I have to tell ya this little story. When I read this post origionally, I had no idea who O&A even were. I found it interesting nonetheless. Like two weeks ago, one of my customers was telling me about O&A and they were back on the radio. I knew NOTHING about them, and I had signed on here the day before (5/29 if memory serves). Being the pirate I am, I started downloading their show, (the full xm and free radio shows) and burning them onto cd's to listen to in the car and at work. You kinda changed my opinion of them. I'm listening to your spot now, and it really pisses me off that they are so dismissive of you. From an entertainment standpoint, I think they are very funny. From a reality perspective however, they leave a bunch to be desired. Now it all fits. I'll start hammering on them too. If you could sway them, that would be a powerful voice.

[AuGmENTor]

bump.. norton responded to mineta.

Where is the reply?

[Gold9472]

I added it to the original.

[Ap_Athy]

I used to listen to those guys years ago when I lived in Northern Jersey.
LOVED their show. This stinks to hear that they are so loyal to this idiot/criminal administration. How can someone be so blind just because they happen to consider themselves Republicans? Insane.

And what's so F'n difficult to believe about the buildings being wired?
If the plane or planes failed to reach their targets, I'm sure boobus America would easily buy that Arabs/Iraqis/OBL/Iranians planted the bombs. yeah, it'd be more difficult to sell, but we can see from the way people ate THE CURRENT UNBELIEVABLE story right up that it wouldn't be a problem for them to eat a bomb story right up. Christ, people HEARD bombs and saw flashes and the bomb story is hard to believe?

Thanks for having this board, JG. This is my first post. Love what you've done.

[Gold9472]

Thanks for signing up.