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frindevil
03-24-2005, 04:49 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/24/sept11.tapes/index.html

Court prevents release of most September 11 emergency calls

Privacy concerns outweigh public interest, judges rule

By Deborah Feyerick
and Phil Hirschkorn
CNN
Thursday, March 24, 2005 Posted: 3:17 PM EST (2017 GMT)
(CNN) -- The emergency phone calls made by people trapped inside the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, need not be released to the public, a New York court ruled Thursday.

The New York State Court of Appeals declined to grant the wish of September 11 families who joined in a lawsuit seeking release of all tapes and transcripts of calls made from inside the Twin Towers to 9-1-1 operators.

"We are not persuaded that such disclosure is required by the public interest," the judges said in their ruling.

Instead, it agreed only to the release of calls from any relatives of the eight families who joined a lawsuit, originally filed by The New York Times as part of a request under the freedom of information law.

The families sought release of the 9-1-1 calls possessed by the Fire Department of New York, along with department dispatcher calls and interviews with firefighters who participated in the September 11 rescue effort.

The court did order the release of 511 interviews with September 11 firefighters.

It ordered that the oral histories be disclosed except for "specifically identified portions that can be shown likely to cause serious pain or embarrassment to an interviewee."

The fire department also will be required to release some internal communications between dispatchers and other employees -- those with "factual statements or instructions affecting the public" but none disclosing "opinions and recommendations."

The FDNY had resisted the disclosures, citing privacy concerns.

The appeals court disagreed with families whose attorneys argued in a hearing last month in Albany that public interest outweighed privacy protection of those who died in the attacks.

Although 9-1-1 calls might contain previously undisclosed factual information about what was happening inside the towers, the judges wrote, "it is normal to be appalled if intimate moments in the life of one's deceased child, wife, husband, or other close relative become publicly known, and an object of idle curiosity or a source of titillation."

Referring to the calls, they said, "Those words are likely to include expression of the terror and agony the callers felt and of their deepest feelings about what their lives and their families meant to them. The grieving family of such a caller -- or the caller, if he or she survived -- might reasonably be deeply offended at the idea that these words could be heard on television or read in The New York Times."

No families came forward to oppose the release.

Norm Siegel, an attorney for the eight families who sought full disclosure, said they will seek affidavits from other families authorizing the release of additional 9-1-1 calls.

"We won a lot, but there are things we didn't get," Siegel said.

The FDNY also sought to block the release of six unidentified tapes and transcripts selected by federal prosecutors as evidence in the prosecution of Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person facing trial in the United States for the September 11 attacks.

The court rejected the concern, saying the release of these calls would not affect the ability to seat an impartial jury.

The 9/11 commission, which had access to the FDNY tapes, found significant flaws in the city's 9-1-1 system and recommended improvements.

somebigguy
03-24-2005, 04:57 PM
Privacy Concerns. What a joke.

Se7en
03-24-2005, 10:05 PM
I dunno. From a legal stand point, they do have a point; however from a concerned American, truly makes you wonder. What are they trying to protect from getting out?


Interesting though.

Gold9472
03-24-2005, 10:17 PM
I dunno. From a legal stand point, they do have a point; however from a concerned American, truly makes you wonder. What are they trying to protect from getting out?


Interesting though.

The only reason the families want to hear it is because it was the last thing their loved ones said, and a lot of family members want to know what it was they were going through at the time of death.

Don't they deserve it?

BEING the family members!!!

Why even THINK of trying to keep those tapes from the family members now that the "Investigation" is over...

Se7en
03-24-2005, 10:24 PM
So, if a rape/murder victim was caught on 911's recording, should they be entitled to that too? You have to be completely equal across the board; releasing a tape like that to the public (and it will get out in the public) can only hurt the families more. Same thing goes with 9/11; how can releasing the 9/11 tapes help with closure?

Interesting debate though.

Gold9472
03-24-2005, 10:33 PM
So, if a rape/murder victim was caught on 911's recording, should they be entitled to that too? You have to be completely equal across the board; releasing a tape like that to the public (and it will get out in the public) can only hurt the families more. Same thing goes with 9/11; how can releasing the 9/11 tapes help with closure?

Interesting debate though.

The answer to your question is, if they want it, ABSOLUTELY. The families are the ones asking for the tapes. Yes, they will be painful to listen to, but the family members are asking for them. That means they want to feel whatever pain they're going to go through. They feel it's "necessary". For whatever reason. I'm not being a smart ass, but who are you to question whether or not those 9/11 tapes would bring closure to the families? Unless you're a family member, you have no idea what it is they've gone through, etc...

If they want the tapes, let them have them.

somebigguy
03-24-2005, 10:45 PM
So, if a rape/murder victim was caught on 911's recording, should they be entitled to that too? You have to be completely equal across the board; releasing a tape like that to the public (and it will get out in the public) can only hurt the families more. Same thing goes with 9/11; how can releasing the 9/11 tapes help with closure?

Interesting debate though.
No way. No one person was attacked. A nation was attacked and everyone that wants the information should have it. A rape happens to one person and is a personal thing. The war on terror is the justification for numerous wars and every decision the gov't makes. The people need access to all information in order to make an informed decision at the polls.

Gold9472
03-24-2005, 10:51 PM
No way. No one person was attacked. A nation was attacked and everyone that wants the information should have it. A rape happens to one person and is a personal thing. The war on terror is the justification for numerous wars and every decision the gov't makes. The people need access to all information in order to make an informed decision at the polls.

If the investigation wasn't over, I would say only the family members should be allowed to listen to them, and in a secure setting.

Now that the "investigation" is over, everyone should be allowed access to them...

Se7en... is that right? As far as the law goes? Would the "Freedom Of Information Act" cover something like that?

Se7en
03-24-2005, 11:01 PM
No way. No one person was attacked. A nation was attacked and everyone that wants the information should have it. A rape happens to one person and is a personal thing. The war on terror is the justification for numerous wars and every decision the gov't makes. The people need access to all information in order to make an informed decision at the polls.

So the 9/11 calls were from a group of people at a time? They were individuals making those calls, fearing for their lives. So, the 'War on Terror' should allow full breaches into indivdual rights, simply because we were attacked? Are you so willing to give up your rights?

If we open the door to ignoring privacy rights due to the 'War on Terror', what is next?

Se7en
03-24-2005, 11:05 PM
If the investigation wasn't over, I would say only the family members should be allowed to listen to them, and in a secure setting.

Now that the "investigation" is over, everyone should be allowed access to them...

Se7en... is that right? As far as the law goes? Would the "Freedom Of Information Act" cover something like that?

The Freedon Of Information Act does not cover things like this. The information should be allowed declassified if, 1) it is not a matter of National Security and 2) it does not infrindge on the rights of others.

Privacy being a STRONG deciding point in the Judicial system would prevent the 'FOIA' from overruling.

somebigguy
03-24-2005, 11:07 PM
So the 9/11 calls were from a group of people at a time? They were individuals making those calls, fearing for their lives. So, the 'War on Terror' should allow full breaches into indivdual rights, simply because we were attacked? Are you so willing to give up your rights?

If we open the door to ignoring privacy rights due to the 'War on Terror', what is next?
Maybe you're right. Personal calls between family members may be kept private, however, other communications such as those between firefighters should be released. Additionally, 9/11 calls should be released. Any situations where privacy was not to be expected.

Gold9472
03-24-2005, 11:07 PM
The Freedon Of Information Act does not cover things like this. The information should be allowed declassified if, 1) it is not a matter of National Security and 2) it does not infrindge on the rights of others.

Privacy being a STRONG deciding point in the Judicial system would prevent the 'FOIA' from overruling.

What about Independent Investigators?

Gold9472
03-24-2005, 11:11 PM
So the 9/11 calls were from a group of people at a time? They were individuals making those calls, fearing for their lives. So, the 'War on Terror' should allow full breaches into indivdual rights, simply because we were attacked? Are you so willing to give up your rights?

If we open the door to ignoring privacy rights due to the 'War on Terror', what is next?

I don't think that's what SBG is saying... the reason that people like he, me, Christopher, etc... exist is because we don't think the "investigation" was "thorough" (I say "thorough" because that in an UNDERSTATEMENT).

I think SBG wants them released because they should be part of the investigation... now my question is... were they? I don't even know.

Se7en
03-24-2005, 11:14 PM
Let me make something clear first of all. I have nothing but respect for either one of you, and although I might take a different view on issues, in no way diminishes that respect.

With that being said, you weigh a very tough issue of privacy v. availability of info. Each situation should be examined individually. We can't make a blanket decision to just let everything out, without first examining each case. There might be sensitive info that shouldn't be released, as well as the concern for the families.

I think the courts made the decision that releasing *all* calls would violate privacy, however, I suspect that individual families that brought suits to allow the release of 911 calls made by their family members, would be heard and ruled in favor of.

Guess we will have to see what the families do next.

Gold9472
03-24-2005, 11:18 PM
There's a section in the "9/11 Report" called, "Civilians, Fire Safety Personnel, and 911 Calls" pg. 285

Gold9472
03-24-2005, 11:19 PM
If anybody needs a copy of the 9/11 Report, I have one available.

somebigguy
03-24-2005, 11:24 PM
As I've said, any communications where privacy was not to be assumed, should be released.

Gold9472
03-24-2005, 11:25 PM
Let me make something clear first of all. I have nothing but respect for either one of you, and although I might take a different view on issues, in no way diminishes that respect.

With that being said, you weigh a very tough issue of privacy v. availability of info. Each situation should be examined individually. We can't make a blanket decision to just let everything out, without first examining each case. There might be sensitive info that shouldn't be released, as well as the concern for the families.

I think the courts made the decision that releasing *all* calls would violate privacy, however, I suspect that individual families that brought suits to allow the release of 911 calls made by their family members, would be heard and ruled in favor of.

Guess we will have to see what the families do next.

I agree with you in regards to your "blanket decision". Of course we shouldn't be allowed access to every single 911 call ever made, or anything else like that, etc... However, in regards to a murder investigation, the family members should be allowed access to the last voice their loved one ever made...

BTW... I don't think every family member will listen to every other family members' tape... I think they will listen to the ones that are related to them, etc...

Because the original 9/11 Commission/Report was a sham, they should at least be allowed to an Independent Commission for further study...

Of course, to get the PTB (Powers That Be) to say that the original Commission was a sham, will be next to IMPOSSIBLE, so we're back at square 246